1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Discuss politics - join our community by registering for free here! HOP - the political discussion forum

Male Abortion Rights: Attn Pale Rider...

Discussion in 'House of Debates' started by fedor50, Aug 30, 2016.

  1. fedor50

    fedor50 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2014
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Hey Pale Rider, I have a question that I want to get your opinion on. What is your opinion of males having abortion rights?

    Since women are able to have abortion and forego responsibility, shouldnnt males also have that right Pale Rider? Would you not agree?
     
  2. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,529
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    NOPE...killing without cause is killing without cause...you don't give a particular group permission to commit an atrocity just because another group gets away with it.
     
    Pandora, Colonel and dogtowner like this.
  3. fedor50

    fedor50 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2014
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Hey Pale Rider, I recently created a new thread offering powerful scientific arguments in defense of abortion that I would love to read your response to:
    http://houseofpolitics.com/threads/new-abortion-argument-against-pale-rider.19041/
     
  4. fedor50

    fedor50 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2014
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    What happened pale rider? Are you too scared to debate me on the facts and the issue?

    Are you afraid that I will make you look bad, uneducated, and irrational?

    Come on, debate me.
     
  5. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,529
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Same old tire arguments fedor...I have kicked your ass to the point that it has become boring....you have no facts...you have misrepresentation...misunderstanding...fabrication...and outright lies...the fact is that we are human beings from the time we come into being because we can be nothing else...your level of maturity has nothing whatsoever to do with which species you belong to.
     
  6. fedor50

    fedor50 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2014
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Pale Rider if you can answer this ONE simple question then you WIN:

    The zygote is a human cell. You already agreed in the past that individual human cells (other than the zygote) are not human beings.

    What is the DIFFERENCE between the zygote and these other human cells such that its status should be elevated to that of a human being?

    Oh, And just saying "Because a zygote is a human being and can be nothing else" does not answer my question and is circular reasoning and assuming the premise.
     
  7. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,529
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    pleuropotency....because of that fact, its destiny is already set....it is a human being because it can be nothing else...
     
  8. fedor50

    fedor50 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2014
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Wow! I am not going to lie Pale Rider, you have actually answered my question and I actually have no real rebuttal. In fact I actually took the time to google search that word "pluripotent" and you are right: they give rise to all the cell types that make up the body.

    Honestly great answer, i will need some time to think up another scientific argument to throw you off guard.

    So FOR NOW you are safe...
     
    Pandora likes this.
  9. fedor50

    fedor50 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2014
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Before I surrender, I note that you avoided my 1 other scientific argument:

    Classification of an organism as "Homo sapiens" requires that 1) the entity is an organism to begin with and 2) that this organism has membership (requisite characteristics) in all the following clubs:

    Domain, Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species. The zygote has only one. Domain eukaryote. It is a single eukaryotic cell. So a zygote does not fit the classification of "Homo Sapiens"

    Conclusion: The zygote does not have the characteristics required to be classified as a Homo sapiens under the rules of taxonomical classification.
     
  10. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,529
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Goes right back to pleuropotency...the general characteristics of all human beings at the zygote stage of development are the same...when considering general characteristics, you have to also consider age and stage of development...we are all pretty much alike at that stage...
     
  11. fedor50

    fedor50 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2014
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Welcome Pale Rider, I am back and have spent the last few months studying the science and now I can finally PROVE that you are wrong.

    In your statement above you are neglecting the Biological Fact that if you claim a zygote qualifies as "human life" equal to yourself, then so does every single cell in a hydatidiform mole.

    HYDATIDIFORM MOLES HAVE 100% HUMAN DNA --therefore according to your OWN definition, hydatidiform moles qualify as "human beings"

    I think I've embarrassed you enough for now...
     
  12. fedor50

    fedor50 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2014
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT ANY MORE SPECIAL THAN A HYDATIDIFORM MOLE. You **do**know, don't you, that human hydatidiform moles originate from human conception events, just like ordinary human embryos?

    That's why the topic of Hydatidiform Moles is SO important. Each such entity begins to exist after ovum-fertilization as a zygote, divides normally like any other morula, escapes the zona pellucida like any other blastocyst, and can implant into a womb. Only after implantation does it reveal its genetic flaws, to the extent that it yields a hydatidiform mole instead of a normal embryo.

    SO, when you insist a human being's life begins at conception, you will find yourself unable to support that claim, because not even YOU would declare hydatidiform moles to be human beings, even though they are 100% human entities, just like normal embryos are 100% human entities.

    The existence of hydatidiform moles is why you will NEVER be able to defeat any of my arguments.
     
  13. fedor50

    fedor50 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2014
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Do some research on "regeneration" and "stem cells":
    1 gene lost = 1 limb regained? Scientists demonstrate mammalian regeneration through single gene deletion

    Basically scientists is on the verge of proving that ANY cell that has a complete set of DNA can be "activated" to become "pluripotent" or even "totipotent".

    This means a human white blood cell has the same potential to become an overall multi-celled human organism as a zygote.The white blood cell will need more assistance than a zygote, since a zygote has a lot of food-resources built-in, while a white blood cell doesn't.

    But the potential is still there
    , for either organism's DNA to become expressed such that, eventually, a 100-pound-plus multi-celled human organism develops.

    It therefore remains a Totally True Fact that a white blood cell can be called a "human organism" just like a zygote can.

    Pale Rider you do know don't you that a white blood cell CAN be reprogrammed to act like a zygote. A liver cell CAN be reprogrammed to act like a zygote. Therefore each such cell is just as much "a human being" as a zygote. PERIOD.

    All it needs is some appropriate Active External Help --starting with just a bit of reprogramming to make it process zygote code in its already-existing DNA.

    What is my point in tearing down each of your arguments Pale Rider? It is to prove to YOU that nothing on this earth is black and white, there is sometimes lots of GREY, in the middle answers to certain types of questions.
     
  14. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,529
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    "HM, or molar pregnancy, results from abnormal fertilization of the oocyte (egg). It results in an abnormal fetus. The placenta grows normally with little or no growth of the fetal tissue. The placental tissue forms a mass in the uterus. On ultrasound this mass often has a grape-like appearance, as it contains many small cysts.}

    It began as a human being and its development failed..so what? Will it develop further?...will it mature and develop organs and systems? It is a failed pregnancy...I don't know what you suppose that proves other than that not every egg that gets fertilized matures to the point of being born. Your arguments get worse and worse...
     
  15. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,529
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    There is a vast difference between totipotent and pleuropotent...make a cell pleuropotent and you have a human being at its most immature stage of development...nothing more....nothing less.

    You had the potential to be a billionaire by age 22...did it happen? Potential doesn't mean anything unless it is realized.

    Make a white blood cell pleuropotent and you have a human being at its most immature stage of development...all you have proven is that with enough technology fertilization becomes unnecessary. Fertilization was never what made us human beings...

    You have yet to tear down any of my arguments...in fact, you have yet to even put a scratch in any of my arguments..all that work and you still haven't demonstrated in any real way that a totipotent human cell is anything less than a human being at its most immature stage...
     
Loading...

Share This Page