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Islam And Its Truth
- Thread starter Free Palestine
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Well if you want in short words I would say you're wrong, and this is half due to your information, and half due to your way of reasoning. There is more to religion than what you can learn from it's followers (whose way of life is influenced by impositions of the society they live in )though it's the easiest and sometimes the only way. But it does worth it spending more time on the original sources itself and trying to think outside the box of information and analysis that your media and surroundings is offering you.
I believe that 9 11 was something planned by the US government as a justification for attacking afghanistan and gaining a foothold in the middle east, and presenting a cruel face as the face of Islam to the world. If there has been any muslims that unaware of this intention, believing that they are doing what their religion is telling them to, played a part in it I don't approve their act. Taking a life of any innocent human on purpose, muslim or not, is a sin in Islam. To tell if they should burn in hell or not I would leave to God, but I'm sure that they would have to answer in the judgement Day for what they have done. Being ignorant about the truth of your religion and your duties, if there has been a chance to gain the truth is itself a sin. But these condemmings won't make me forget who is responsible for the tenths of times more innocent lives who've been and are being taken in afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, etc.
All of the 9/11 terrorist professed that they were doing this for Islam. So apparently their belief system led them to the conclusion that killing US citizens was a good idea. So you say... but they were just radical extremists. Just like the guys that were doing video beheadings. The beef it seems to me is between the peaceful Muslims and the killers of innocent people but until you and others are willing to admit..they should burn in hell for what they did..I have to believe my research
Over 3000 people lost their lives. ground zero is a grave. They never found all the bodies.
doug
we are at war with Islam..
Over 3000 people lost their lives. ground zero is a grave. They never found all the bodies.
doug
we are at war with Islam..
pocketfullofshells
Well-Known Member
So do you believe then that all of Al Quida is some US front group? The only way someone can believe that this was planned by the US , is to suspend all logic and indulge in a love of conspiracy with little critical thinking. Also it gives the US government credit for pulling off something so grand and yet secret...as far beyond its actual power and capabilities. Its the same to me, as Irish Catholics trying to say that there was and is no IRA and its just the British ploy to keep power in the north...It may sound nice to someone who wants to believe that Irishmen would never set a car bomb in the streets od Belfast that kills many civilians or even kids...but its wrong...it also does not mean all Irish and or Catholics support such actions.
I believe the US has done alot of wrong things in the world, I don't deny that..But 9-11 was done by Arab Muslim terrorist, its as simple as that. I am sure they think they will get there virgins in heaven and Allah will praise them and that they believe they have fallowed the Profit Mohammad (pboh) But I believe they will find that..to murder one, is to murder all of mankind...will overrule there warped and brainwashed logic.
pocketfullofshells
Well-Known Member
Spoken like, well basically the ones you attack. Islam is not to be attacked, nor has Islam attacked us. People who follow a warped idea of Islam attacked us, and we are at war with the groups who support them yes...but we did not go to war with Christians when Christians blew up the OKC federal Building. Your idea of a religious war, because of the actions of a few of Islam..is not far removed from those who declared war on the US and Christians...for actions of a few...and used it to justify the murder of 3000
pocket..I can see you don't need to know anything about what you post other than you get a good feeling from it..What you said sounds great but why can't he admit 9 11 was murder..There is no such thing as a moderate muslim..
regards
doug
If you want to debate this from knowledge, I am your man
regards
doug
If you want to debate this from knowledge, I am your man
What I said about the US government ( I forgot to add Israel as the other roleplayer in it) planning 9 11 isn't anything new or just something that I've heard from my own politican men.There are lots about it from American politicians and researchers (like Christopher Bollyn) in the internet*; but this idea is not exactly equal to saying "Al Quida is some US front group". Of course in all conspiracy plans there are always some people who are used as a means to carry them out. These are either betrayers and spies, or just some whose thoughts and actions match the aims of conspiracy and are themselves unaware of being used in a conspiracy plan. I think thee second one is closest to the truth in the case of 9 11. So, while I do blame Al-Qaede for their radical actions I try to stay more focused on what is going on to the many muslims in the middle east (much more than 3000 killed) and to the image of Islam in the world after 9 11, in the name of dmocracy and fighting terrorism.
Of course all this doesn't mean that Islam is all a smily face, but understanding the truth about the other face needs some more in-depth reading and thinking about Jihad and it's conditions. I just tried to say that Al-Qaede's actions is not a good example for this. I would rather suggest the 33-days war between Hizbollah and Israel for you to study on.
*http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/103598/-interview-with-christopher-bollyn-quot-the-despised-state-of-israel-cannot-survive-for-long-quot-by-kourosh-ziabari.html
Of course all this doesn't mean that Islam is all a smily face, but understanding the truth about the other face needs some more in-depth reading and thinking about Jihad and it's conditions. I just tried to say that Al-Qaede's actions is not a good example for this. I would rather suggest the 33-days war between Hizbollah and Israel for you to study on.
*http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/103598/-interview-with-christopher-bollyn-quot-the-despised-state-of-israel-cannot-survive-for-long-quot-by-kourosh-ziabari.html
zak..you said..but understanding the truth about the other face needs some more in-depth reading and thinking about Jihad and it's conditions. I just tried to say that Al-Qaede's actions is not a good example for this. I would rather suggest the 33-days war between Hizbollah and Israel for you to study on.
What does any of that have to do with 9 11..I don't want to compare 9 11 to the 33 day war..I will ask again..Are they murderers?TIA
regards
doug
What does any of that have to do with 9 11..I don't want to compare 9 11 to the 33 day war..I will ask again..Are they murderers?TIA
regards
doug
My gullible Muslim reader does not explain exactly what it is that happened to the tens of thousands of Muslims that caused them to viciously attack Christians, Jews, Hindus, women, and children this past decade. Our presence in Saudi Arabia, the War in Iraq, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, all these things could be a trigger to violent action I suppose. However it doesn't explain that the majority of attacks, rapes, stonings, hangings, burnings, etc. are inflicted on non-combatants.
I suppose we should excuse Muslim gang-rapes on the ground that 9 out of 10 people involved in the rape find it enjoyable.
If Americans left every single place where Muslims are the majority, if America threw every single Jew out of Israel, if we took our troops out of every country in the world, there would still be things that anger Muslims.
There are Muslims who still seek revenge against unbelievers for the Crusades, for the downfall of the Ottoman Empire by the Allies after WWI, for the Reconquista, and for thousands of past insults by infidels to their religion, their prophet and their God.
So Muslims will always be angry if there is a single unbeliever breathing on this Earth.
Of all the nations on the Earth they hate America the most. The truth is Muslims do not hate us for our freedoms, sorry George Bush, they despise and attack us because we are the single strongest infidel nation and therefore a most formidable impediment to their goal of world domination. China's economic clout is barely one-third that of the US. If that were reversed, if China were the 800 pound gorilla on the block and dominated the world as the US does, then Osama Bin Laden certainly wouldn't be wasting his time on the US, it would be Chinese asses his fatwa would fall upon.
Look at the facts: China suppresses their Muslims, but it is the US, which does not suppress their Muslims, that gets his attention. Osama would attack China if they were the greatest infidel power on the planet, if the Chinese instead were the greatest impediment to a World Caliphate. But then would any idiot invoke the ridiculous phrase, "Muslims hate the Chinese for their freedoms?"
Here's the deal: America stands in the way of Muslim world domination. Whether we are a free nation or a dictatorship doesn't matter because there are no apologies we can make, no treaties we can sign, no amount of Jews we can kill, no abject deeds we can perform, no concessions we can offer that will placate them other than our abject surrender and submission to Allah. Then, perhaps, they won't be angry. Then, perhaps, they won't hate us.
doug
I suppose we should excuse Muslim gang-rapes on the ground that 9 out of 10 people involved in the rape find it enjoyable.
If Americans left every single place where Muslims are the majority, if America threw every single Jew out of Israel, if we took our troops out of every country in the world, there would still be things that anger Muslims.
There are Muslims who still seek revenge against unbelievers for the Crusades, for the downfall of the Ottoman Empire by the Allies after WWI, for the Reconquista, and for thousands of past insults by infidels to their religion, their prophet and their God.
So Muslims will always be angry if there is a single unbeliever breathing on this Earth.
Of all the nations on the Earth they hate America the most. The truth is Muslims do not hate us for our freedoms, sorry George Bush, they despise and attack us because we are the single strongest infidel nation and therefore a most formidable impediment to their goal of world domination. China's economic clout is barely one-third that of the US. If that were reversed, if China were the 800 pound gorilla on the block and dominated the world as the US does, then Osama Bin Laden certainly wouldn't be wasting his time on the US, it would be Chinese asses his fatwa would fall upon.
Look at the facts: China suppresses their Muslims, but it is the US, which does not suppress their Muslims, that gets his attention. Osama would attack China if they were the greatest infidel power on the planet, if the Chinese instead were the greatest impediment to a World Caliphate. But then would any idiot invoke the ridiculous phrase, "Muslims hate the Chinese for their freedoms?"
Here's the deal: America stands in the way of Muslim world domination. Whether we are a free nation or a dictatorship doesn't matter because there are no apologies we can make, no treaties we can sign, no amount of Jews we can kill, no abject deeds we can perform, no concessions we can offer that will placate them other than our abject surrender and submission to Allah. Then, perhaps, they won't be angry. Then, perhaps, they won't hate us.
doug
pocketfullofshells
Well-Known Member
I don't need to study anything about Israel, I think its a pathetic nation of holier then though war mongers. There abuses of human rights are appalling, and I hate that my nation supports it at times.
pocketfullofshells
Well-Known Member
debating you from knowledge would be unfair, as you have not shown to have any outside of hyperbole. There are no moderate Muslims? with some hundreds of millions of Muslims in the world none are moderate? One of the dumbest statements made on this board....and thats hard to do.
Why is it that you insist on me calling them murderers. I said I don't approve their way. The reason I didn't use such precise words is that I cannot trust the media for what they say about them and what has really happenned. Well let me finish this out. If they have done it and on the knowledge that they are killing innocent men they are murderers.I don't blame them though for hating USA. It's just that there should be a distinction between the government and the people.
I named the 33day war as an example of Jihad which I personally aprove. This war had the least non-military victims on the Israelli side due to Hizbollah announcing before hitting the residential areas, while on the other hand there were hundreds of Lebanese citizens killed.
I don't say all muslims are nice muslims or all of them are perfect. I don't say all the wars they've been through in the history was the true sample of Islamic Jihad, while I don't assume them all as not being so. Neither do I condemn every act of muslims that you consider harsh or cruel as such (like hanging the murderer by the Islamic law). So here I would prefer to leave you to your view about muslims being all and allways angry, because there is no use arguing since you overlook whatever you want in favor of your own view and refuse to see the whole truth.
But about the second part of your view on why muslims hate USA...
Islam is not a religion that only sticks to personal activities minimising itself to daily prayers and fastings and such. It has social and governmental palns and necessities, since it is believed that many personal perfections can not be gained without the necessary social or governmental settings; so it is natural that muslims hate most the government who is an obstruction and threat to them providing such conditions by imposing it's own policies and culture to them.
Of course doing all you said might not wipe out all the hatred or dislike of muslims towards you, but it will help a lot.
Finally, allthough you wrote your last sentence in an ironical sense, but I liked it. Submission to Allah is equal to turning back to all the evil and facing all the good on earth, which complemented with asking him(Allah) for guidance to the rightous way, can leave no reason for you being hated by the true muslims which themselves have surrendered to him.
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pocket, you do know that was a quote..But I clearly set myself up for that.
The simple answer is this: we are not really fighting a war against terrorism; we are fighting a war against Islam.(I say this after 5 years of research) As such, I view the problem the way a mother would view her two children fighting with each other: she would make each go to a different room and settle down. That is my solution - separate the two for a period of time, maybe around a thousand years, more or less, and then revisit the issue if and when there is any evidence that everyone can get along. Until then, they stay in their separate rooms.
This solution saves the most lives - without question. If you want to save lives, then you have no choice but to go with this plan. There is no other option.
It's pretty simple, really. It will never happen, but that's only because most people would rather have war. Well, don't blame me for that. Don't tell me my plan doesn't make sense. It does make sense. It's the only plan that makes sense. But even I know better than to think it will ever happen. It won't. Instead, we will commit ourselves to centuries of suffering. That's the way it goes. But, you can now tell your grandchildren that you actually heard of a way to avoid all the bloodshed.
regards
doug
It's only going get worse between Muslims and the West..
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