Is Christianity compatable with Communism

Are Christianity and Communism compatable?

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 26.7%
  • No

    Votes: 10 66.7%
  • Other[specify]

    Votes: 1 6.7%

  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .
I can stop you by cutting you off when you try to talk. "Capitalism is..."-"YOUR MOTHER!!"-:Excuse me, I would like to-""THATS WHAT SHE SAID!!!!"
It would really be a immature thing for me to do, but it is a way.
You wouldn't actually be stopping my ability to exercise free speech,
I could just keep talking despite your interruptions.

That wold have been one strike if you could have found a way to prevent me from cutting you off....
You didn't stop me, I'm still typing responses - exercising my right to free speech - and on this medium, you cannot cut me off.

And the same for Capitalists under a purely Communist system.
That is incorrect. Communism bars the private ownership of capital and forces the redistribution of wealth, therefore one could not practice Capitalism under Communism.

Really? Would you enjoy yourself in a world with no human beings?
Your basic flaw lies in the belief that denying individuals their individual rights is good for humanity as a whole... Humanity is nothing more than a collection of individuals, so denying them individual rights only impedes mans progress.

But, if communists decide everything democratically, do you think they would take away thier own freedom?
Yes they would. "democratically" means by majority rule, so whoever has the bigger gang of thugs gets to bully those in the minority. If two of your friends vote to punch you in the nose, and you vote against being punched in the nose, they win "democratically" and you get punched in the nose.

He knows more about my own idealology more than I do! I am very embarressed by this major flaw in my understandding of Marx. I proceed to take the more sensible road"common ownership of the means of production". I always had a feeling that I was saying something incorrectly, and now I have found it. Well, my position is now that of Marx, not what I thought his was.
Glad to help.
 
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I have read nothing of Marx or Engels that leads me to believe they wouldn't use force to abolish religion, that seemed pretty self evident in their remarks on the subject.
The qoute that you used to explain this earlier in fact stated that religion would become irrelevent to people once the conditions requiring it were abolished.


The purpose of our government was to protect our individual rights from everyone else, be it other individuals, groups and even government. You see governments protection of our individual rights as government exerting control over the population but I see your Communist government exerting control to deny individuals their rights by enslaving them to the will of the majority.
Of OUR government in america, yes. But the original purpose of government when it first appeared was control.


You need to read up on your Marx. The concept of transitioning to Utopian Socialism was predicated on building a massive authoritarian state that would have the power to abolish such things as private property and religion, once that goal was accomplished, they were then supposed to begin dismantling the state aparatus... in that, Lenin and Stalin were doing precisely what Marx had called for. So you're complaint should be that they didn't take the necessary final steps to implement utopian socialism.
That period was supposed to be authoritarianism of the MAGORITY, not one of the minority, which Lenin and Stalin put into effect.


Its good to hear you're coming around and recognizing the existence of individual rights.
But I am not.


They were all communists, what they were not is utopian socialists, a concept which you seem to confuse with communism.
Explain how any of these people were in any way communists.


That is a glittering jewel of collasal ignorance.
It is not a law if it is not allowing or prohibiting something by force, and, apparently, identity is just there.


You have already said that you and your buddies practice communism... so exactly how are people who choose not to participate with your collectivist activities preventing you from exercising communism?
Communism requires a society with laws different than present society, and we could be severely punished for exercising some of the freedoms we would have under communism. Plus, Marx called for world revolution.


Negative rights bar action from being taken against the right. The right to free speech is a negative right, it bars other people and even government from infringing on your right.

Positive "rights", like Health Care, impose obligations on others. If you have a "right" to health care, then someone is obligated to provide you with health care, which violates the individual rights of the provider.
So now your rights are violating each other. Makes them make less sense and be less likely of existing.


You're the communist... you want to take property from other people, property you didn't earn and don't deserve. Those who own property have a right to do with it as they please, that includes giving it away, even to snot-nosed brats that don't deserve it.
So, according to you, communists and heirs are the same thing?

If I could get some help from the peanut gallery on this one... Could one of my religious friends please chime in as to whether or not you chose, by your own free will and by rational decision, to believe in your religion? Where you in any way forced, or otherwise "brainwashed", into following your religion?
Most people are indoctrinated into thier religion from birth, which is a terrible infringement on thier freedom.


You can do which... argue against the law of identity or stop me from exercising free speech without the use of force?
The latter.





If we take things like talent, skill, education and all the other requisites out of the equation and simply asked people whether they would prefer to be a pro-athlete or a concession stand worker, I can't imagine more than 5% choosing the consession stand.
Correct, but there are way more than two jobs in the entire world.
 
You wouldn't actually be stopping my ability to exercise free speech,
I could just keep talking despite your interruptions.
I am not talking about this forum, but if I just went up to you on a street and did that.


You didn't stop me, I'm still typing responses - exercising my right to free speech - and on this medium, you cannot cut me off.
See above.



That is incorrect. Communism bars the private ownership of capital and forces the redistribution of wealth, therefore one could not practice Capitalism under Communism.
But they could leave the society and practice capitalism in an area were communism has no need to go.

Your basic flaw lies in the belief that denying individuals their individual rights is good for humanity as a whole... Humanity is nothing more than a collection of individuals, so denying them individual rights only impedes mans progress.
I have only suggested denying the right to property, which is just one.


Yes they would. "democratically" means by majority rule, so whoever has the bigger gang of thugs gets to bully those in the minority. If two of your friends vote to punch you in the nose, and you vote against being punched in the nose, they win "democratically" and you get punched in the nose.
But you are basing this on the belief that everyone will vote to benefit themselves, which destroys your argument that they will enslave themselves.
 
What do you think?

I think that, although the aspects of the religioun such as giving, helping the less fortunate, and selflessness would fit in well, the authoritarian aspect would not work in a Worker's Democracy, and neither would the restrictions on love and expression.

So, what do you think?

I believe the two are completely incapatible with religion there is only the one higher power GOD with idiocy I mean communism there is only the leader.
 
I believe the two are completely incapatible with religion there is only the one higher power GOD with idiocy I mean communism there is only the leader.

What leader? Are you a brainwashER or a brainwashEE? Firstly, how is christianity any different then a dictatorship based on your above remark? Secondly, how is direct democracy with the means of production owned by the people and no way for a single person to control his fellow man in any way involving a leader? Those are not rhetorical questions, I want you to answer them.
 
The qoute that you used to explain this earlier in fact stated that religion would become irrelevent to people once the conditions requiring it were abolished.
Marx states religion would have to be abolished as part of the revolution.

Of OUR government in america, yes. But the original purpose of government when it first appeared was control.
Communism is all about control.

That period was supposed to be authoritarianism of the MAGORITY, not one of the minority, which Lenin and Stalin put into effect.
Lenin and Stalin did precisely what Marx would have done.

Explain how any of these people were in any way communists.
Special pleading: where a proponent of a position attempts to cite something as an exemption to a generally accepted rule or principle without justifying the exemption.

I asked you to offer some concrete evidence as to why Lenin and Stalin fail to qualify as Communists but you still have not done so.

It is not a law if it is not allowing or prohibiting something by force
The laws of motion... The law of gravity... The law of Identity... The law of Causality... Whether or not you choose to recognize these laws, they exist - just like individual rights - they exist, whether or not you choose to recognize their existence.

Communism requires a society with laws different than present society, and we could be severely punished for exercising some of the freedoms we would have under communism.
Such as?

Plus, Marx called for world revolution.
Which is why Lenin and Stalin were doing precisely what Marx called for.


So now your rights are violating each other. Makes them make less sense and be less likely of existing.
Did you notice that I put the positive "rights" in quotes? That's because they are not legitimate rights, they are the "rights" collectivists craft to abolish individual rights.

So, according to you, communists and heirs are the same thing?
Communists steal from others through the use of force, heirs are simply the recipients of charity.

Most people are indoctrinated into thier religion from birth, which is a terrible infringement on thier freedom.
Which freedom?

Correct, but there are way more than two jobs in the entire world.
Moving the goalpost (raising the bar): argument in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded.

It doesn't matter which jobs, higher paying jobs require more education, skill, and ability than lower paying jobs but you dismiss such realities as trivial.

I am not talking about this forum, but if I just went up to you on a street and did that.
First, my freedom of speech exists no matter what the medium, whether its spoken or written does not matter. Second, even if you attempted to shout me down on the street, I could simply continue speaking... I have a right to speak, not a right to be heard... So no matter how loud you shout, you cannot stop me from speaking.

But they could leave the society and practice capitalism in an area were communism has no need to go.
There you go again proving my point... You're free to practice Communism under Capitalism but Capitalists must leave your Communist society in order to practice their preferred system.

I have only suggested denying the right to property, which is just one.
What you are suggesting in practice, is that some people have a right to make property out of others.

But you are basing this on the belief that everyone will vote to benefit themselves, which destroys your argument that they will enslave themselves.
They will enslave each other, by democratic means. That is the basis of Collectivism, sacrifice of the individual (self interest) to the collective.
 
Why would we want to? The concept of mortality makes people want to do more with thier lives.

Yes, like go to church every Sunday in hopes of a better life after this one, or even like becoming a monk or nun and dedicating this life to religion in hopes of a better life to come.
 
Marx states religion would have to be abolished as part of the revolution.
Yes, but he said that it would not have to be by force.


Communism is all about control.


Lenin and Stalin did precisely what Marx would have done.
SPECIAL PLEADING!!!!!!!!!


Special pleading: where a proponent of a position attempts to cite something as an exemption to a generally accepted rule or principle without justifying the exemption.

I asked you to offer some concrete evidence as to why Lenin and Stalin fail to qualify as Communists but you still have not done so.
1) Russia was not an industrialized country, but a generally rural one, which means Lenin's revolution skipped over a stage in the Marxist developmental model (Industrial Capitalism, specifically).

2) The Russian "Revolution" in October was not a mass Proletarian revolution, but instead a coup d'etat led by a militant minority.


The laws of motion... The law of gravity... The law of Identity... The law of Causality... Whether or not you choose to recognize these laws, they exist - just like individual rights - they exist, whether or not you choose to recognize their existence.
You can prove said laws, but you cannot prove rights, which is why I consider you religios, not a good objectivist.

We cannot smoke marijuana. We cannot tresspass. We cannot kill an endangered species. We cannot have a life-affecting direct-democracy because we are trapped in the prison of the constitution.
Is that enough?


Which is why Lenin and Stalin were doing precisely what Marx called for.
Socialism in one country does not sound worldwide to me.





Did you notice that I put the positive "rights" in quotes? That's because they are not legitimate rights, they are the "rights" collectivists craft to abolish individual rights.
How do you know that it is not the other way around? You just sound arrogant to me.


Communists steal from others through the use of force, heirs are simply the recipients of charity.
Which you oppose.


Which freedom?
Freedom of thought. It also violates your precious constitution's first amendment.



Moving the goalpost (raising the bar): argument in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded.
What evidence?

It doesn't matter which jobs, higher paying jobs require more education, skill, and ability than lower paying jobs but you dismiss such realities as trivial.
Stock market jobs require no work whatsoever. The Sultan of Brunie sits around telling people to mine oil all day. The commander tells little gangs of people to go there or attack there.


First, my freedom of speech exists no matter what the medium, whether its spoken or written does not matter. Second, even if you attempted to shout me down on the street, I could simply continue speaking... I have a right to speak, not a right to be heard... So no matter how loud you shout, you cannot stop me from speaking.
When you cannot hear, you cannot speak properly.


There you go again proving my point... You're free to practice Communism under Capitalism but Capitalists must leave your Communist society in order to practice their preferred system.
I would think someone like you would be happy to leave our little commune.


What you are suggesting in practice, is that some people have a right to make property out of others.
Elaborate.


They will enslave each other, by democratic means. That is the basis of Collectivism, sacrifice of the individual (self interest) to the collective.

But if they enslave others they enslave themselves. Barely anyone is dumb enough to do that.
 
Yes, like go to church every Sunday in hopes of a better life after this one, or even like becoming a monk or nun and dedicating this life to religion in hopes of a better life to come.

Or enjoy life while they can, leave a good memory, make a difference as quick as possible.
 
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