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"I'd be dead without Obamacare."

Discussion in 'Health' started by PLC1, Jan 14, 2017.

  1. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    Consumers make up the society in which we live, thus I'm sure that you would agree that Trump is wrong and that American jobs should not be protected and no blocks put on imports of goods and services from cheaper third world countries and that immigrants from Mexico irrespective of their status should not be deported and that government spending on roads and railways and bridges should be stopped.
    If consumers and thus society in general are better off looking after themselves then surely they should have no inherent rights whatsoever.
     
  2. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    ....and thats acceptable?
     
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  3. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    You would prefer to deny reality ?
    You deny that greed works in both directions ?
    Company X wants my money but so do I so if Company Y sells for less because they too want my money, I can consume what I choose.
     
  4. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    You're not really that dumb, are you?

    Company X and company Y know you want the cheapest rate. . .but they are smart enough (and crooked enough) to know that they can make a deal between them to assure that the "cheapest rate" will remain high enough to give them BOTH twice as much profit as a REAL competition would!

    Collusion may be illegal. . .and there are established antitrust laws. . .but these laws have no teeth, and collusion is rampant in the health care and pharmaceutical industry!

    Antitrust Enforcement in the Medical Services Industry: What Does It ...
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › NCBI › Literature › PubMed Central (PMC)
    by CC Havighurst - ‎2005 - ‎Cited by 1 - ‎Related articles
    Antitrust Enforcement in the Medical Services Industry: What Does It All Mean? ..... Moreover, tacit collusion and the following of price leaders are facilitated by ...
     
  5. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    Donald Trump heads to Capitol Hill today to push the passage of a health care bill he doesn’t understand:In my opinion
    Economist Bob Murphy suggests an analogy to food, to illustrate how ObamaCare (the First Five Year Health Care Plan) rejects the free market to the detriment of health care consumers. Let’s say the nation decided to deal with the problem of the hungry by saying that everyone had to buy a food plan. If you couldn’t afford it (or might have to give up your iPhone to buy it) the government would subsidize it. The food plan provided that you could go in the store and get whatever you wanted. Pretty soon you’d have shortages of everything, as people ran in to stock up on stuff. The price of food would skyrocket and the “need” for government to subsidize food plans would seem more critical every year.

    This seems absurd to us, because we have experienced a (mostly) free market in food. But what if this experiment with food plans had begun decades ago? What if virtually nobody alive remembered what it was like to have a free market in food? If someone like me came along and said: “Dude! I found your problem! It’s these food plans! You just need to have a free market in food!” I would be derided as an ivory-tower egghead. Food isn’t like other commodities! I’d be told. It’s not a luxury item. You need food to live. People aren’t going to give up their free food. And what? You want millions to starve?

    And if some narcissistic blow-dried ignoramus came along and told us that the Magic Solution was to institute a New Five Year Food Plan, I’d keep telling everyone the same thing: “We have to have a free market in food. Free markets are the only way you’ll get the costs down. I know you don’t understand this because you’ve had food plans your whole life. But empty shelves and lining up for hours for cheese isn’t normal. There’s a better way!”

    Well, there’s a better way for health care, too. In any area not covered by insurance (like LASIK), prices have come down and quality has gone up. Having a third-party payer system, which has arisen because of government distortions in the market, will keep prices high — and subsidies, whether you call them subsidies or “refundable tax credits,” will only make it worse.

    Freedom. The market. These are the mechanisms that will drive down the cost of health care and make it affordable. Tinkering with different ways to redistribute the wealth won’t work. It never has and it never will.
     
  6. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    President Trump and Speaker Paul Ryan have pulled the GOP's bill to repeal and replace Obamacare after failing to get enough support for it. Here's the latest.

    Washington Post

    What a bunch of bozos.....
    Amature hour....
     
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  7. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    listen to this... its just mindless waffling....


    ..."we got no help from the democrats".....:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
     
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  8. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    That guy just can't speak straight. He can't admit a defeat, he can't admit a wrong, he can't admit a mistake. He is the typical narcissistic, full of arrogance and afraid of being seen for what he really is. Blaming everyone for his own failure, never able to rise as a President or a strong, intelligent, secure person would.

    He is a shame to the USA.

    I can't go anywhere in Belgium, Nederlands, or Germany without having people ask me how could Americans possibly vote for that guy. They laugh, and they go as far as wishing he will die before too long.
     
  9. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't even bring myself to read your rant in its entirety! Too many blaming the victims from the beginning!

    The first thing you said that is wrong is "the free market!" There is NO FREE MARKET in healthcare. . .in fact, at best, health care should NEVER BE A MARKET, but a service and a RIGHT. But since, in the US, there must be a "market" for healthcare, at least recognise that it is NOT FREE. . .but the main players are COLLUDING and price fixing! So your whole premise and comparison with food is a failure.

    If every burger joint decided to price their plain burger at $10.00 instead of the current $2 or $3, sure, people would have a choice to go to Burger King or to McDonalds. . .but they would still pay anywhere from $10.00 to $15.00 for something that is worth a mere $2 or $3!

    Why do you think that EVERY OTHER COUNTRY can provide healthcare at ⅓ to ⅔ of the cost of the US, and still maintain a quality that is SUPERIOR to US healthcare with a lower child mortality, and a higher life expectancy? BECAUSE the government is involved WITH private industry and assures that price fixing doesn't happen!

    I hope the healthcare system gets fixed. . .but it is certainly NOT what Ryan and Trumdon'tcare offered that will fix it, or that will reduce the cost!

    The ONLY thing that will eventually reduce the cost of healthcare in America AND provide basic coverage for all is the public option. . .supplemented (for those who choose to do it) with private insurance! Basically, what Medicare already offers to seniors (who, by the way, are the most expensive population to cover, and still Medicare manages to cover them at everyone's satisfaction much cheaper and much more efficiently than private insurance!).

    Get real! Stop eating and drinking propaganda and start studying the subject, start looking at other types of healthcare with HONESTY, with a willingness to learn and to admit that YOU CAN LEARN something from OUTSIDE the USA!
     
  10. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    Ryan cut his own throat by pushing what nobody wanted. Trump was playing nice letting Congress make legislation but they got it wrong. He should have pointed that out.
    But perhaps he wanted a better speaker. If someone wants to h an himself, give him rope.
    Now they can.pass the repeal they passed so man times before and give the people what they want.
    Don't forget Ryan was a third in Trump's side A LOT. That did not go unfirgotten.
     
  11. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    Why go through with something that has been defined as one's flagship policy since day one of his journey to the Whitehouse and allow it to fail?
    Trump indulges himself in this frivolous fantasy world of verbal masturbation in the twitter-sphere instead of doing the job entrusted to him.
    Steve Bannon's experiment is collapsing around his ears - maybe he should start the fifth cycle "begin again with a better prospect"......
     
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  12. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    Already explained this. DJT working on a bigger scale. Eliminate the bottleneck once to make all that is to come smoith. Chess not checkers.
     
  13. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    ....you go ahead and believe that if it brings you comfort.....
     
  14. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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  15. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    Don't have time for the whole thing but spot on about the forced coverages. Before this stuff a family of four could buy a minimal policy for 4500 while a minimal NY was 17000. Forced coverages. This has to go back.
     
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