I can Prove God Does NOT exist

where did God come from?

A necessary being has no cause - or is the cause of itself. That is the only logical answer in lieu of an infinite regress.

Just cuz you cant explain something, does not mean you just make up mythical super power for it.

And you do know there are other theories besides the big bang right? That are based in Science, not well some big powerful guy just did it ...end of story.

By all means, state them here --- and put your version of science to the test of logic.
 
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Here's how it works. This universe runs on cause/effect, right? Something happens, it causes something else to happen, that something else causes something else - all of universal history can be viewed as an infinitely complex string of dominoes. This is fully observable, proven, and generally understood.

However, a cause/effect universe has the problem of infinite regress, or the simple question of "how did it start?" After all, in a cause/effect universe everything that exists has a cause. Therefore we're left in a quandry - either infinite regress is possible and somehow the universe has always existed, making it an entity entirely without a cause, or at some point so far back in our history it doesn't pay to think out the numbers something else existed that had no cause, which was the vehicle for creating - well, everything.

Basically this line of reasoning requires consideration of elements too complex for the human brain to fully understand. We may be able to say the words, but understanding the concept is, at present, beyond us.

That's where I'm at right now.
 
Yeah, thats pretty much it.

So from what you have said, the conclusion is drawn than something kickstarted the universe. What that is however is totally unproven.
 
Here's how it works. This universe runs on cause/effect, right? Something happens, it causes something else to happen, that something else causes something else - all of universal history can be viewed as an infinitely complex string of dominoes. This is fully observable, proven, and generally understood.

However, a cause/effect universe has the problem of infinite regress, or the simple question of "how did it start?" After all, in a cause/effect universe everything that exists has a cause. Therefore we're left in a quandry - either infinite regress is possible and somehow the universe has always existed, making it an entity entirely without a cause, or at some point so far back in our history it doesn't pay to think out the numbers something else existed that had no cause, which was the vehicle for creating - well, everything.

Basically this line of reasoning requires consideration of elements too complex for the human brain to fully understand. We may be able to say the words, but understanding the concept is, at present, beyond us.

That's where I'm at right now.

A space time singularity has NO SPACE NOR TIME -- assuming anyone can imagine such a thing. I'm not even sure the question -- what came BEFORE it? -- is valid, since it already assumes a uniform time extending infinitely in all directions. Nor is it valid to imagine an empty vacuum of space, since space is crumpled to a dimensionless point. Nor is it possible to even approach this point since ALL equations breakdown any closer than 1 planck time from the big bang.

It is ABSOLUTE, NON-EXISTENT, NOTHINGNESS. So, we have gone full circle.

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth......
 
Yeah, thats pretty much it.

So from what you have said, the conclusion is drawn than something kickstarted the universe. What that is however is totally unproven.

It proves a non-deterministic first cause, doesn't it. It also proves that the first cause 'kickstarted' EVERYTHING FROM NOTHING, doesn't it? And it was done against the inertial tendencey of nothing to REMAIN as nothing, doesn't it?

If that is not CREATIVE WILL, then I am very much interested on your 'guess' as to what the hell that is?
 
It proves a non-deterministic first cause, doesn't it. It also proves that the first cause 'kickstarted' EVERYTHING FROM NOTHING, doesn't it? And it was done against the inertial tendencey of nothing to REMAIN as nothing, doesn't it?

No, it doesn't. The finite regression ends at the beginning of the universe we inhabit. What came before that is not neccessarily nothing, but something we have no possible comprehension of and it does not neccessarily have to be one deity-like enitity.

If that is not CREATIVE WILL, then I am very much interested on your 'guess' as to what the hell that is?

I don't know, and whatever guess I hazard is only going to be a guess - because we just don't know. Everyone can talk about creative will, space time singularity dimensions or what not but all we know from the cosmological argument is that the universe was a finite thing and something had to come before it or exists outside of it.
 
No, it doesn't. The finite regression ends at the beginning of the universe we inhabit. What came before that is not neccessarily nothing, but something we have no possible comprehension of and it does not neccessarily have to be one deity-like enitity.

There is no concept that approximates a singularity other than NOTHINGNESS.

If I pointed you to something that has no spatial dimension and does not exist in time, you're not going to give me the benefit of the doubt, are you?

In fact, you'd think I'm simply insane.

But when its inevitable alternative is the existence of a creator, you find the 'insane' more intellectually palatable?

I don't know, and whatever guess I hazard is only going to be a guess - because we just don't know. Everyone can talk about creative will, space time singularity dimensions or what not but all we know from the cosmological argument is that the universe was a finite thing and something had to come before it or exists outside of it.

We have already gone through this. Remember the flatness problem?

The only way that the universe has existed for 13 billion years is through a CONTRIVED balancing act between the tensile and compressive tendencies of lambda and matter/energy.

Statistically, that is equivalent to winning the jackpot in the lottery for one week straight. No self-respecting physicist is going to accept that.

The alternative, a varying speed of light that would inherently regulate this balance. The consequence -- mass and energy are not conserved -- which means, they are CREATED AND ANNIHILATED IN A COSMOLOGICAL SCALE. Not to mention einstein turning in his grave for making such a suggestion.

The conclusion -- however uncomfortable you might feel about it -- is INEVITABLE.
 
There is no concept that approximates a singularity other than NOTHINGNESS.

If I pointed you to something that has no spatial dimension and does not exist in time, you're not going to give me the benefit of the doubt, are you?

In fact, you'd think I'm simply insane.

But when its inevitable alternative is the existence of a creator, you find the 'insane' more intellectually palatable?

A creator would have to exist in this place that has no spatial dimension that does not exist in time, or at least something outside of the universe - a very wierd place in regards to the laws of the universe. So if he exists in this 'insane' place, his existence is just as, if not more 'insane'.

We have already gone through this. Remember the flatness problem?

The only way that the universe has existed for 13 billion years is through a CONTRIVED balancing act between the tensile and compressive tendencies of lambda and matter/energy.

Statistically, that is equivalent to winning the jackpot in the lottery for one week straight. No self-respecting physicist is going to accept that.

The alternative, a varying speed of light that would inherently regulate this balance. The consequence -- mass and energy are not conserved -- which means, they are CREATED AND ANNIHILATED IN A COSMOLOGICAL SCALE. Not to mention einstein turning in his grave for making such a suggestion.

The conclusion -- however uncomfortable you might feel about it -- is INEVITABLE

So the universe's existence is an amazing thing - too amazing. It doesn't mean its some bloke with a big beard on a cloud does it?? I admit there is a creating force, but what that creating force is cannot be proved through the cosmological argument.
 
A creator would have to exist in this place that has no spatial dimension that does not exist in time, or at least something outside of the universe - a very wierd place in regards to the laws of the universe. So if he exists in this 'insane' place, his existence is just as, if not more 'insane'.

First of all, it is not insane -- since the mathematics from which singularities are extrapolated is not only there, it is the norm in physical cosmology.

Second of all, it is not a place. It is quite literally, a nothingness that applies to all measureable quantities. It is not even similar to euclidean (empty) space contemplated in geometry.

Lastly, the only thing that can possibly exist in such a state, that is, within the human experience or comprehension, is the metaphysical idea of independent and immutable will.

We know that free will exists within each and everyone of us, no?

We know that free will is not a function of our material constitution since it is the impetus by which ideas are created, no?

Why deny the inevitable conclusion of logic?

So the universe's existence is an amazing thing - too amazing. It doesn't mean its some bloke with a big beard on a cloud does it?? I admit there is a creating force, but what that creating force is cannot be proved through the cosmological argument.

As I said, no self-respecting physicist would accept a cosmology that merely suggests 'possible'. It must be the 'most probable' cause given the universe as we know it.

Besides, no one is trying to peddle what is or isn't in the nature of the first cause -- except to say that it EXISTS and it is a CREATIVE WILL -- in the most literal meaning of the word.

Oh, and one other thing, the jackpot analogy I gave -- that is the probability that the universe would remain in this state from one moment to the next for the entire duration of 13 billion years. Think about it.
 
Everyday that goes by without the proof that God does not exist just confirms that such a proof does not exist.

But we already knew that it was impossible to disprove the existence of God as He is most commonly defined.

After all, wherever He is proven not to be we can just conclude that He could be in some place where one has not looked yet - like heaven.
 
Everyday that goes by without the proof that God does not exist just confirms that such a proof does not exist.

But we already knew that it was impossible to disprove the existence of God as He is most commonly defined.
 
Maybe a story will change your mind:


A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed. As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation. They talked about so many things and various subjects. When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said: "I don't believe that God exists."

"Why do you say that?" asked the customer. "Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist.

Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain.

I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things." The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument. The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop.

Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He looked dirty and unkempt. The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber: "You know what? Barbers do not exist."

"How can you say that?" asked the surprised barber. "I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!"

"No!" the customer exclaimed. "Barbers don't exist because if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside."

"Ah, but barbers DO exist! That's what happens when people do not come to me."

“Exactly!" affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES exist!
That's what happens when people do not go to Him and don't look to Him for help.
That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."
 
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