Hello from UShadItComing

[UShadItComing]

I'm not an American hater per se but I do hate what the US is doing in the world today. And therefore I hate some Americans if they are Americans who support the evil war in Iraq.

I don't take abuse from people on forums and I usually respond at an attempt to troll or an attempt to be rude with much more than what the initiator would like to receive in return. You could say that I will respond with a match being struck against me with a comeback using a flamethrower. That's how I play the game and if those terms are not suitable for this forum then we might just as well get it out in the open right now. Life is too short to spend on a forum which will allow personal attacks if they are cleverly worded to suit biased moderators.

I will also mention that I do not do temporary suspensiongs from a forum. That is because I don't initiate attacks against others which are outside the rules and so any need to suspend me from a forum will be due to the moderators not doing their job right from the beginning.

Having said that, if this forum can live with those terms then let's give it a try. If not then it's best to just say so now.

 

[UShadItComing]

You burn their people, they burn your flag and you think they are bad.

Keep em coming dickhead.

You are a great recruiter for the 9/11 truth society

Interesting post in that this person calls another a dickhead! Is that within the rules or was there an infraction handed out for that one. Everyone should know the stated rules but it's useful for a new poster such as myself to know how the rules are applied.

If somebody calls me a dickhead I would report the post and hope to see some kind of confirmation that the behaviour is dealt with. If there is no reprimand then I will call the person something much worse in return.

Not that I like to see strict moderating, just that it's nice to know what the forum is all about.

 

[GenSeneca]

Greetings and welcome to the forum,

Dawkins, like you, is not an American but he is a full fledged America hater. He's unwilling to say where he lives and unwilling to be civilized in discussion. As I said, Dawkins is unwilling to share what country he is from, may I ask what country you are posting from?

The "Dickhead" Dawkins was referring to is me and I never report abuse... I'm an adult and I can fight my own battles. He can attack me all he likes as it does nothing to support his case or his preposterous theories. If you want to be taken seriously here, you would be wise to avoid personal attacks - even when provoked.

I really don't care if you want to complain about America but chances are... There are more Americans with disdain for our government than there are citizens in your entire country... so please bear that in mind when blasting the US for our policies - We aren't happy either.

BTW - I lean to the Right, Capitalist-Libertarian-Conservative. Before you jump to conclusions with visions of Fascist NeoCons, I invite you to read my many criticisms of American policy and ask that you don't stereotype all Americans based on your perception or limited encounters with my fellow countrymen.

As for your name... That should be a big hit around here.

 

[The Scotsman]

I'm not an American hater per se but I do hate what the US is doing in the world today. And therefore I hate some Americans if they are Americans who support the evil war in Iraq.

...do you hate everybody that supports the Iraq war or do you just hate Americans that support the Iraq war?

I don't take abuse from people on forums and I usually respond at an attempt to troll or an attempt to be rude with much more than what the initiator would like to receive in return. You could say that I will respond with a match being struck against me with a comeback using a flamethrower. That's how I play the game and if those terms are not suitable for this forum then we might just as well get it out in the open right now. Life is too short to spend on a forum which will allow personal attacks if they are cleverly worded to suit biased moderators.

....I was always under the impression that a thick skin was a desirable quality when debating on the internet as one always finds the odd person that does not have the wit and intelligence to argue a point without resorting to strange behaviour. To respond in kind is usually seen as a weakness indeed two belligerent posters becomes boring when one is trying to have a serious debate.....what are your thoughts on this?

I will also mention that I do not do temporary suspensiongs from a forum. That is because I don't initiate attacks against others which are outside the rules and so any need to suspend me from a forum will be due to the moderators not doing their job right from the beginning.

....you seem to be labouring this point about posting and the rules you have about those that post on this forum.....would you agree that it is up to the site owner "Walter" and his team of moderators to decide how they adjudicate and moderate this site?

Having said that, if this forum can live with those terms then let's give it a try. If not then it's best to just say so now.

....or we don't engage with you in conversation!


You are not from the US I notice....where are you from?

Anyway nice to see you and I look forward to seeing you round the boards!

 

[UShadItComing]

Greetings and welcome to the forum,

Dawkins, like you, is not an American but he is a full fledged America hater. He's unwilling to say where he lives and unwilling to be civilized in discussion. As I said, Dawkins is unwilling to share what country he is from, may I ask what country you are posting from?

I'm a Canadian living in B.C.

The "Dickhead" Dawkins was referring to is me and I never report abuse... I'm an adult and I can fight my own battles. He can attack me all he likes as it does nothing to support his case or his preposterous theories. If you want to be taken seriously here, you would be wise to avoid personal attacks - even when provoked.

As I said in my introduction, I can live with personal attacks too and my preference is to not report them but I choose to fight back if the person is worthy of my time. Most stupid people aren't. But I guarantee you that I will be taken seriously.

I really don't care if you want to complain about America but chances are... There are more Americans with disdain for our government than there are citizens in your entire country... so please bear that in mind when blasting the US for our policies - We aren't happy either.

I understand that there are good people in America of course but I don't accept that Americans should be allowed to escape criticism of the harshest kind. I liken the US today to Nazi Germany of the 30's and 40's and if Americans can bring themselves to subscribe to that theory then I would say that they are not in denial of the reality. If they can't then they will leave themselves open to criticism from me. I am firmly convinced that this is not an exaggeration and I will reiterate my position in that regard as we progress with the discussions.

BTW - I lean to the Right, Capitalist-Libertarian-Conservative. Before you jump to conclusions with visions of Fascist NeoCons, I invite you to read my many criticisms of American policy and ask that you don't stereotype all Americans based on your perception or limited encounters with my fellow countrymen.

Just the fact that I am Canadian, alone would place me on the left in your opinion I suspect. In fact I support the Liberal party of Canada which would be on the left of politics if we only considered two major parties and excluded the NDP. But is that actually leftist? Compared to a political spectrum consisting of all first world countries I think you would find that my politics may fall a little right of center. From an American's POV I would hazard to guess that I would be leftist but I place little value on American P's of V.

As for your name... That should be a big hit around here.

Thank you. It was created with the intent of making it clear to Americans how I feel about their foreign policy. And also, thank you for your mature and reasonable response.

 

[UShadItComing]

...do you hate everybody that supports the Iraq war or do you just hate Americans that support the Iraq war?

You haven't read my introduction carefully but that may be because you aren't interested in understanding what I said. Perhaps you would like to try to address what I said with a different perspective.

....I was always under the impression that a thick skin was a desirable quality when debating on the internet as one always finds the odd person that does not have the wit and intelligence to argue a point without resorting to strange behaviour. To respond in kind is usually seen as a weakness indeed two belligerent posters becomes boring when one is trying to have a serious debate.....what are your thoughts on this?

I have a thick skin too and I can live with moderating which allows personal insults. I would prefer to have moderators who do their job and watch carefully what's happening on their forum. Actually I don't usually respond in kind but rather prefer to escalate the abuse which should get a moderator's attention if he/she is sitting on his/her hands. Unfortunately moderators are only human and will usually be highly biased toward their own political affiliation. This is why we need to be able to establish a set of rules which are applied equally. When I invest time on a forum I don't like it to have my participation interrupted prematurely and so if I'm handed a suspension then I know that is the beginning of a concerted effort. It's simply a fact that moderators are biased as you will never hear from the ones who are in political agreement with your own views.

....you seem to be labouring this point about posting and the rules you have about those that post on this forum.....would you agree that it is up to the site owner "Walter" and his team of moderators to decide how they adjudicate and moderate this site?

....or we don't engage with you in conversation!

IMO it is entirely up to Walter how he runs his site and it's up to me to judge whether or not the site is worthy of my participation.

You are not from the US I notice....where are you from?

Anyway nice to see you and I look forward to seeing you round the boards!

I'm Canadian and living in B.C. If you prove to be worthy of my time then we will talk again on this board.

 

[GenSeneca]

I liken the US today to Nazi Germany of the 30's and 40's

I invite you to start a thread where you lay out the evidence you have for such an accusation. Please provide relevent links and sources... I don't ask you take me at my word when I make statements so I hope you will accept that I also will not take your word for it.

Additionally, is there any information, proof, facts or evidence that can change your opinion, OR are you going to believe We are Nazi's no matter what information is presented?

I look forward to your post.

 

[UShadItComing]

I liken the US today to Nazi Germany of the 30's and 40's

I invite you to start a thread where you lay out the evidence you have for such an accusation. Please provide relevent links and sources... I don't ask you take me at my word when I make statements so I hope you will accept that I also will not take your word for it.

Additionally, is there any information, proof, facts or evidence that can change your opinion, OR are you going to believe We are Nazi's no matter what information is presented?

I look forward to your post.

Thanks for your reply and your challenge. If I am going to debate the question I will do so on my own terms because I am not obliged to do so on yours. To begin with, please read what I say carefully and you will see that I didn't say Americans were Nazis, albeit that's a small distinction when in fact the US influence in the world today is as opposed to world peace as was Nazi Germany's course of action.

To start a special thread for the question would seem to be too confrontational for me at this point in time. I am simply likening the actions of the US to the actions of Nazi Germany in it's march toward global hegemony. In fact we have ample evidence to show that the US has declared it's intent toward that purpose. If we are to accept that rather than the US being intent on fighting against terrorism in the ME it is involved in wars to further it's economic and political gains then it should at least become obvious that the US is the largest threat to world peace since the fall of Nazi Germany.

What is your own perspective on the war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan. If we can first of all establish that then I will know where I need to concentrate in making my point as stated above. If you do indeed accept that the US is in the ME for oil then I would suggest that some of my claims become quite obviously true. Perhaps that is how we should proceed but if you would care to start a thread which rebuts my claim then I would be glad to take part.

Additionally, is there any information, proof, facts or evidence that can change your opinion, OR are you going to believe We are Nazi's no matter what information is presented?

Of course I am always open to a reasoned rebuttal if you care to be specific in pointing out some of your perceived differences in the comparison.

 

[GenSeneca]

With all due respect, it sounds as though you choose the debate tactic of 9/11 conspiracy theorists, whom you've denounced. You have made assertions and claims but nothing of significance worth rebutal... The CT's never offer an explanation or try to explain their position... I find that disappointing and hope this is not the path you choose to take.

If you start a thread explaining what evidence has brought you to your conclusions, we have something to talk about and its your thread so you can pretty well set the agenda. Asking me to start a thread when I don't even know what specifically you're complaining about doesn't sound productive.

Now as to your question, I was for Afhganistan and against Iraq. I do however believe we would have gone to war in Iraq anyway, it was just a matter of time. The war for oil charge doesn't stack up with the numbers, so I'm curious as to what information you're looking at. America's number one supplier of Oil is Canada and our imports from Iraq are actually below Pre-War levels but relatively stable over a 15 year period.

Other than the nazi's having their military fight in multiple countries and the US having our troops fight in multiple countries, I don't see any similarities between the US and Nazi Germany.

I aslo notice you put "anti-conservative" on your sig... I imagine your concept of who a conservative is and what they believe greatly contrasts with people like myself who are proud to be conservatives. In fact, your perception of Conservatives is probably based on the Leftist stereotype of Conservatives: evil, greedy, want to destroy the planet to make a buck, warmongers etc, etc.

Finally, I do hope you would abandon the feeling that this is about "debating"... there's nothing to win in a forum. Look at Dawkins for example, no matter how many times his questions are answered, he keeps asking them over and over as though it never happened. I'd rather talk to intelligent people who can articulate their position in order that we may come to understand why we hold different views.

Fire when ready...

 

[The Scotsman]

I'm Canadian and living in B.C. If you prove to be worthy of my time then we will talk again on this board.

bye bye

 

[UShadItComing]

With all due respect, it sounds as though you choose the debate tactic of 9/11 conspiracy theorists, whom you've denounced. You have made assertions and claims but nothing of significance worth rebutal... The CT's never offer an explanation or try to explain their position... I find that disappointing and hope this is not the path you choose to take.

How so? And please don't forget the fact that it wan't I who asked you for a rebuttal. You originally offered a rebuttal with no substance.

If you start a thread explaining what evidence has brought you to your conclusions, we have something to talk about and its your thread so you can pretty well set the agenda. Asking me to start a thread when I don't even know what specifically you're complaining about doesn't sound productive.

Suit yourself then. I am simply maintaining that the US emulates Nazi Germany in the fact that it is intent on trampling on foreign countries with it's pre-emptive wars on the false justification of it being a war on terror. You could at least offer your thoughts on your country's justification for it's wars as I have requested and that would give me some sort of grist on which to continue to discuss the issue with you. Did you forget? If you will do that and you now understand that your wars are illegal pre-emptive wars which are based on false justifications then you will get something in return.

Now as to your question, I was for Afhganistan and against Iraq. I do however believe we would have gone to war in Iraq anyway, it was just a matter of time. The war for oil charge doesn't stack up with the numbers, so I'm curious as to what information you're looking at. America's number one supplier of Oil is Canada and our imports from Iraq are actually below Pre-War levels but relatively stable over a 15 year period.

Good! So I'll deal with Iraq and simply state that you are making my case for me. As for the numbers not stacking up, you are wrong even though you are correct on Canada being your largest supplier of foreign oil. It's clearly a matter of a smaller per centage coming from the ME but even so it still forms a necessary portion of the 21 million barrels a day you require to survive at present levels of consumption. In addition to that, for the moment I will only say that there are plans to increase Iraqi oil production to higher levels as Saudi oil declines. You will probably deny that the US has belligerent plans for Venezuela and Hugo Chavez in the making.

Other than the nazi's having their military fight in multiple countries and the US having our troops fight in multiple countries, I don't see any similarities between the US and Nazi Germany.

Are multiple pre-emptive wars not enough proof??? The rest are secondary details to that but very significant in that the sheer number of people of foreign coutnries slaughtered under US bombs is another similarity not encountered since the fall of Nazi Germany.

I aslo notice you put "anti-conservative" on your sig... I imagine your concept of who a conservative is and what they believe greatly contrasts with people like myself who are proud to be conservatives. In fact, your perception of Conservatives is probably based on the Leftist stereotype of Conservatives: evil, greedy, want to destroy the planet to make a buck, warmongers etc, etc.

My signature wasn't created with you in mind of course. Thank you for your characterizatin of conservative but it is not mine, it is yours. Albeit it is at least in part consistent with my beliefs on conservativism. I can elaborate further if you wish to pursue the topic in that direction.

Finally, I do hope you would abandon the feeling that this is about "debating"... there's nothing to win in a forum. Look at Dawkins for example, no matter how many times his questions are answered, he keeps asking them over and over as though it never happened. I'd rather talk to intelligent people who can articulate their position in order that we may come to understand why we hold different views.

Fire when ready...

You can call it discussion if you like but I will call it discussion and debating regardless of how you feel. I believe that I am correct in doing so. I'll deal with Dawkins as a separate issue in due course.

I understand full well that it's uncomfortable for Americans to have to realize that their foreign policy resembles that of Nazi Germany but I really don't think the comparison can be denied. If you ask people in most other countries of the world you will get a very negative opinion of your country's antics. You would serve yourself well if you paid attention.

But in fact you already have conceded the fact that your Iraq war was wrong and for false reasons haven't you! Will you take the same postion if the US goes to war with Iran to prevent them from obtaining nuclear capability? Not that I'm suggesting for a minute that it will happen.

 

[GenSeneca]

I see where you're going with this so I'll gladly withdraw my invitation.

Enjoy yourself here at HOP.

 

[UShadItComing]

I see where you're going with this so I'll gladly withdraw my invitation.

Enjoy yourself here at HOP.

if you care to explain what you mean by that then please do. If not then I will assume that you have conceded my point on the US resembling Nazi Germany.

Thanks for the debate.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

I'm not an American hater per se but I do hate what the US is doing in the world today. And therefore I hate some Americans if they are Americans who support the evil war in Iraq.

I don't take abuse from people on forums and I usually respond at an attempt to troll or an attempt to be rude with much more than what the initiator would like to receive in return. You could say that I will respond with a match being struck against me with a comeback using a flamethrower. That's how I play the game and if those terms are not suitable for this forum then we might just as well get it out in the open right now. Life is too short to spend on a forum which will allow personal attacks if they are cleverly worded to suit biased moderators.

I will also mention that I do not do temporary suspensiongs from a forum. That is because I don't initiate attacks against others which are outside the rules and so any need to suspend me from a forum will be due to the moderators not doing their job right from the beginning.

Having said that, if this forum can live with those terms then let's give it a try. If not then it's best to just say so now.

Canada was a large Supporter of the war

http://www.knowledgedrivenrevolution.com/Articles/200602/20060201_CAN_Iraq_War_Support.htm

http://coat.ncf.ca/articles/links/Canada_in_Iraq.htm

So hope you hate Canadians as well.


Blame Canada, blame Canada, it seems that everythings gone wrong since Canada came along, blame
Canada, blame Canada

 

[BigRob]

if you care to explain what you mean by that then please do. If not then I will assume that you have conceded my point on the US resembling Nazi Germany.

Thanks for the debate.

The US does not resemble Nazi Germany. While Germany during this time passed things such as the Enabling Act and actual did away with rights such as Habeus Corpus, the US has done no such thing. The Patriot Act in no way took away any rights of US citizens, nor did any laws approved by Bush or Congress.

The US is not ruthlessly destroying all political opposition parties as was done by the Nazi party, but rather we have just undergone a change of power in Congress, something that would never have happened in Nazi Germany.

Added to that is the lack of a racial elimination program in the United States such as the one in Nazi Germany that led to the Holocaust.