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Health care systems compared

Discussion in 'Health' started by Walter, Jul 10, 2017.

  1. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    I'll leave that with you then.... I've zoned out
     
  2. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    Very informative! Since I currently live in Belgium, we also have a system of universal healthcare, combined with a (mostly) not for profit supplemental insurances called "Mutuel" who compete between them by offering additional benefits (such as summer camps for kids, spa membership contributions, day trips for seniors, etc. . .).

    One element that is very important is that all people covered by one of the insurance within the European market can visit any other EU countries and their benefits follow them.

    Now. . .why can't the US look at those MANY alternative forms of universal healthcare and LEARN from it?

    Arrogance? Too much "run away" capitalism where everything, including the health of children and elderly, should have PROFITS as a main focus?

    So sad!
     
  3. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean "LIE" about dead babies?

    If you refer to the way the far Right in the US considers every abortion as a "dead baby". . .you are off your rocker!

    Most countries ONLY consider LIVE BIRTH of a LIVEABLE baby into the "death baby" count!

    So. . .don't blame other countries for being LOGICAL!
     
  4. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    Don't be silly! The difference in infant mortality is actually not so large in NEWBORN or at birth, but in the time between 1 and 12 month! And I, personally, believe that it has to do with the MUCH GREATER access to affordable health care and "baby wellness" that European babies enjoy compared to American babies.

    "In our comparably-reported sample, the US neonatal mortality disadvantage is quantitatively small and appears to be fully explained by differences in birth weight. In contrast, the US has a substantial disadvantage relative to all comparison countries during the postneonatal period even in our comparably-reported sample and even conditional on circumstances at birth. A simple illustration for the three countries with micro-data (the US, Finland and Austria) can be seen in Figure 2, which shows the cumulative probability of death over the first year. The infant mortality rate in the US is higher at all ages, but this difference accelerates after the first month of life. Importantly, this excess postneonatal mortality does not appear to be driven by the US “delaying” neonatal deaths: the postneonatal disadvantage appears strongly even among normal birth weight infants and those with high APGAR scores.

    Hence, our cross-country analysis points to the importance of the postneonatal period as a driver of the US disadvantage and, on its own, may suggest support for policies which target this period of life. In the second part of the paper, we expand our analysis to consider geographic variation in infant mortality within the US, focusing on the nine US Census divisions. If the lowest mortality Census division (the North East) were a country on its own, it would have a mortality rate very similar to Austria.. In contrast, the worst off Census division (East South Central) has a one-year mortality rate twice as high as the North East. Replicating our

    cross-country decomposition across US Census regions again uncovers an important role for the postneonatal 2
    period: only 38% of deaths in the lowest-mortality Census division occur in the postneonatal period, but deaths during this period account for 67% of the geographic differences in mortality. Reducing postneonatal mortality in each Census division to the level observed in the lowest-mortality division would reduce mortality rates, on average, by 0.72 deaths per 1000 births."

    Why Is Infant Mortality Higher in the United States Than in Europe?
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › NCBI › Literature › PubMed Central (PMC)
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
  5. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    Read before you rant.
     
  6. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    European countries do not all follow the WHO definition of stillbirth.
    Had you been engaged in this thread you would know that.
    Live births who die very earmy are considered stillborn. Helps the infant mortality rate and saves tons of money. We try v to save them here.
     
  7. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    And if you had bothered to read the article I provided, you would have noticed that it addressed this point and that the conclusion is that IT DOES NOT explain the difference in infant mortality. . .as the greatest difference of infant mortality occurs, NOT AT BIRTH, but between the 1 month and 12 month after birth!

    DUH!
     
  8. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    So why do those countries refer to infant mortality as stillbirth ? Obviously to make the infant mortality rates appear better than they are and to avoid paying for care for those babies.
     
  9. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    You are too thick for words!
    Read the article. . .and then we can talk. . .maybe!
     
  10. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    By the way. . .where did you see that "some" countries don't use the WHO definition of stillbirth?

    You do realise that the couple of countries who have a SLIGHT variation to that definition are actually reporting MORE stillbirth, as they also take into account fetus at a 22 or 24 week development, while the strict WHO definition considers fetes at 28 weeks development!

    So. . .even that argument is negating your point of view!
     
  11. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    You read the article I posted.
     
  12. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    Read the article. You don't know what you're talking about.
     
  13. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    No dear. . .YOU don't know what you are talking about! You are so intent in seeing wrong every place but your hyper Right Wing America
     
  14. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    So. . .are you or are you not referring to the WHO definition of stillborn?
    If you are (as are all the countries in Europe), your comment makes no sense.
    And, if you are not. . .still your comment makes no sense!

    You seem to contradict the FACT that Germany's healthcare is superior to the US (and to most of the world's) by focusing on "stillbirth!" Yet, it is clear that the US stillbirth is significantly higher than in Germany. . .and both countries use the WHO definition (including "early, late, and term" stillbirth.

    It is also a FACT that most stillbirth occur NOT IN EUROPE OR IN THE US, but in poorly developed countries, such as sub-sahara AND in rural area.

    It is also a fact that most stillbirth occur DURING delivery, and that almost all stillbirth are related to poor care during pregnancy and/or lack of knowledge and medical facilities. This is why the occurence of stillbirth has decreased significantly in developed countries over the last 10 years.

    To summarise: What's your beef?

    By the way. . .could you use references that tend to be NON PARTISAN and scientific, rather than clearly RIGHT WING, CONSERVATIVE sources, such as the National Review, which obviously has a very focused agenda: to discredit all that is not in support of the repeal of Obamacare!

    Get a life!
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  15. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    Too lazy to read or can't bear to be wrong ?
     
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