Most Australians do not think that the USA ever had a left wing government. Obama is more moderate than the republicans let alone the tea bagers but he is not socialist. So any faults in the American econmony must be the fault of right wing groups moderate or extreme. Surely the National Rifle Association is right wing not left wing
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Greece looking to the right for solutions ?
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Gipper
Well-Known Member
You are making conclusions based on erroneous information. The USA has been leaning left for decades and our economy has been a mixture of socialism and capitalism for a long time. Our national debt dwarfs all nations...thanks to decades of stupid left wing policies. Our entitlement, welfare, and military spending have bankrupted the nation.
To think BO is NOT a socialist, is to fail to recognize reality. And to think he is MORE moderate than Rs and the TP, is completely ludicrous.
Do you think the NRA controls the government of the USA?
i thought that was a curious comment as well.
This statement makes absolutely no sense.
GenSeneca
Well-Known Member
As I tried to tell Aus, Capitalism does not exist on a sliding scale, the smallest touch of socialism eradicates the Capitalist system - the free market - and turns it into a Mixed economy. So when you say that the US has a mixture of socialism and capitalism, you are not only incorrect but you also reinforce the Left's fallacious beliefs.
Put yourself in the mindset of a Leftist. What is it they blame when the econ tanks? Capitalism, i.e. the private sector, those evil bankers, greedy Wall Street Tycoons, big business etc. What do they credit for good economic times? Socialism, i.e. the public sector, the beloved Unions, and the government's infallible ability to guide the economy to prosperity while keeping the greedy Capitalists at bay.
Naturally, the Leftist "solution" for every economic problem is... More Government! After all, it has to be larger and more powerful to overcome the nefarious machinations of the evil private sector, all those selfish Capitalists who made their fortunes by lying, cheating, and stealing their way to the top must be kept on a short leash, and watched at all times, or they will crash the economy. Government to them is as pure as the wind driven snow, uncorrupted by the profit motive - the vile curse of the private sector - Unless of course Republicans have power, then government is just a tool the crooked politicians use to steal money from the poor so they can give it to their rich crony friends.
Bottom line, we don't have Capitalism in the US and suggesting that it can exist in degrees will only fuel the fallacy of the Left. While Capitalism doesn't exist on a sliding scale, economic freedom does. Who is more free, the man confined to a prison cell or the man standing in a field shackled with leg irons? The man wearing the leg irons can be more productive, he has the capacity to provide products and services to others, while the man in the cell cannot. Capitalism is Freedom, no chains, no cells, no government impediments (or assistance) whatsoever.
Our system is one of shackles but Americans have become so accustomed to wearing them that they forget they are there, or consider it necessary and rationalize the shackles as being better than confinement inside a prison cell. We don't even consider ourselves a "Free" nation anymore but merely the "Free-est", a subconscious acknowledgement of our subjugation. What has been lost is the idea that Americans can be free, that we can cast off the shackles and live our own lives without the government holding us back from prosperity, or dragging us over the cliff. So please, do not confuse our lesser degree of slavery for that of actual freedom, do not confuse the absence of totalitarian Communism for the presence of Capitalism.
GenSeneca
Well-Known Member
A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:
- Topic A is under discussion.
- Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A).
- Topic A is abandoned.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because merely changing the topic of discussion hardly counts as an argument against a claim.
Gipper
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Our mixed economy is NOT capitalism.
The American economy has become terribly bastardized by progressive and socialist policies. Those are the policies that as you say, shackle Americans and prevent us from being truly productive and free. The entrepreneurial spirit that made America great, is rapidly being extinguished by the leftists...while they blame capitalism.
One can only hope that the coming worldwide economic implosion will result in the death of socialism and all it's sister ideologies.
I think I better keep to Greece. As the New York Times said yesterday every government in Europe, both right and left have been defeated due to the economic recession. It is hope Greece will not elect a nationalist party either left or right but will stick with the Conservative Socialist alliance.
Gipper
Well-Known Member
Greece is in deep shit. Do you know why? Let me tell you. They have operated a socialist government for decades, which has granted the people many unsustainable benefits.
Its an old story being repeated throughout the world (yet somehow you and others fail to see the true cause) and it all comes back to a unsustainable, immoral, and corrupt economic system of governance....SOCIALISM!!!
socialism is fine until you run out of other people's money.... M.Thatcher
there was a documentry on Greece on Australian Television last night. The problem Greece faces is not a choice between the left and the right but between the centre and the extreme. Thee alliance between The Socialist, Pasok party and the Conservative New Democracy parties of the centre which was the old government has been challenged by parties of the extremes. The GoldenDawn of the extreme right and Alexis Striko of the extreme left. If the extreme parties win the election, Greece will pull out of the EU and refuse to pay any of its debts. With 1'2 million unemployed many Greeks are turning to extremes. This is the danger for Greece and the EU not Socialism.
this is the result of socialism and default is bound to occur. too many people will refuse make the hard but necessary decisions and will have to have it rammed down their throats having all choice removed. probably better that this happen sooner rather than later. can't recover till you hit the bottom.
Gipper
Well-Known Member
You are NOT comprehending. Or, it could be you purposely used a Red Herring AGAIN...(see post 81 above for reference)
The CAUSE of Greece's problems is SOCIALISM!!!! THE CAUSE!!! Comprehendere???
The DANGER to Greece and the EU is entirely something else.
Greece today voted for the Moderate centralist parties . The New Democracy party received 30% of the vote while the extremist Striko received 27% of the vote. If the New Democracy party can form a coalition with the Socialist Party , Greece can support the bail out and stay in the EU.This is a great day for Greece, the EU and the world.
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got some big "if"s there bro
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