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Good News Out of Iraq

Discussion in 'World Politics' started by USMC the Almighty, Apr 5, 2007.

  1. TheWaffle

    TheWaffle Well-Known Member

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    You obviously did not read a thing I wrote. I clearly stated that a pull out was not the correct course of action. You keep failing to address what I say and instead you address me based on your conception of what "Liberals" believe. I don't want to cut off their money. I don't want a timeline. And your remark about billions in bribes is pure slander. The fact of the matter is that the government has and continues to shortchange the soldiers in many ways. For instance we have truck drivers for American contracted companies being paid four times what we pay our soldiers. We have

    Um...I distinctly remember writing that I don't care how Bush looks after this war. I do care how our country is.

    So you mean to tell me that the abundance of reports from CNN, MSNBC, FoxNews, and even the Pentagon itself reporting that in the first 3 years of the war almost 300 of the deaths of American soldiers could have been prevented had they been equipped with adequate body armor, or in some cases any armor at all. And what about the thousands of families who had to purchase the body armor that their soldiers wear. In the early part of the war it reached points where 25% of our active duty troops had no body armor. And how about the humvees that were destroyed by IEDs, surely it was just happenstance that the armored humvees could take the hits and survive while the unarmored humvees would be completely destroyed right? The Vietnam era m-16 scandal is a perfect example of how the actions of the government are not always in the best interests of our soldiers.

    He was called dumb, idiot, and loser all before the war. He's not the smartest Command in Chief we've had but it bothers me when people criticize his speech difficulties; I've had to speak in front of hundreds of people and I know how hard it can be to form your ideas and sentences. And I don't care how he pronounces Nuclear. None of that matters. I do believe that liar has been proven in the time since, however. But then again I would be impressed if you found a president who didn't have to lie in the course of his job. As for Nazi that was generally in response to his "You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists" argument. Not to mention his surpression of political dissent as seen through the Valerie Plame incident. Also his unjustified invasion of a country. I have never called him a Nazi, whereas you have called me a terrorist. Take a look at yourself before you pass judgment.

    Um...I do support the troops. I have good friends in the armed forces. I don't believe I ever said I didn't support them. I think that's something you just made up to try and give creedence to your argument. And if by saying that I believe there is nothing worth dying for you mean that it is not worth dying to "liberate" a nation should have taken it upon itself to rebel as opposed to directing our resources to improving the lives of the impoverished and the ill here in America. Or how about helping the people of the world who can't fight for themselves. For instance how about those dying in the dozens of countries with more oppressed minorities, or more domineering regimes. There are people far more in need, the sad fact is that our government has connections with several of them.

    Again you are putting words in my mouth that I did not say. But let us look back to the beginning of the invasion where Bush ignored the advice of the military and the Generals in the Pentagon. He was the one who thought that he was more intelligent then everyone else. I just don't understand your approach. It is in no ones best interest to ignore the reality of the situation. And to continue with your ranting about how we should all "SUPPORT THE TROOPS" means absolutely nothing. If everyone stops what they are doing and just believes really hard it's not suddenly going to make everything better. I don't know maybe that's what you think, but I prefer to be grounded in reality.

    Again you paid no attention to what I said. I don't know how many times I have to say it before you get it through your thick skull "A PULL-OUT OF IRAQ IS THE WRONG COURSE OF ACTION!"

    Ok so now you are just a racist bigot. Are you really going to infer here that Islam is the problem or that being associated with Islam makes you a terrorist? Or are you actually saying that you think Muslims are going to invade. Also in case you were not familiar Iraq did not force women to wear burkas before the war. It is also rhetoric exactly like that, which gets people believing Christianity as the enemy, and is what gives grounds to what the radicals preach. Criticizing the government is not aiding terrorism, rhetoric like that, which you just spouted, does however.
    I've gotten in some heated arguments here and almost everyone on the opposing side has put forth solid arguments but you're post here is just ridiculous. You did not respond to what I wrote, you responded to what you wanted to believe I wrote. You basically had a page long argument between yourself and some imaginary opponent.
     
  2. Truth-Bringer

    Truth-Bringer Well-Known Member

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    Did anybody catch the coverage from Iraq on 60 minutes last night? WOW!!!! They interviewed several people in Baghdad - the line for gasoline was several miles long. One man said he had waited as long as 3 days to fill up his tank before.

    It's 4 years after the invasion and these people still can't get gas... WHERE IS ALL THE DAMN OIL GOING???????

    It didn't look like things were improving much at all from that report. The family they interviewed was only leaving the house to take their kids to school - and they said that was really too dangerous.
     
  3. the most Ironic part of that expose was the part about the Doctor that we Risked troops to go in and save in Bagdhad then 2 weeks later we just turned him loose

    yeah Iraq really looks like we have improved theyre way of life dosent it?
     



  4. Please do explain to us Readers How exactly is it that they are to Achieve"VICTORY" against an "IDEOLOGY" you cannot
    Defeat a an ideology it lives in the minds of men and women it does not have a culture nor a country it is loosely defined it wears no uniforms it comes and goes like the wind

    you cannot achieve victory over an ideology
     
  5. vyo476

    vyo476 Well-Known Member

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    Well, yes, you can. People are capable of changing their minds. It's whether or not we're going about this whole Iraq thing in a way that'll do that, or even if we have a strong enough case to do so, that's the question.
     
  6. your missing the Point
    yes peoples minds can be changed............Terrorism is an Ideology that is as old as mankind.It does Not alone live in the minds of Afghanis,or Muslims, or Jews, or catholics, or gentiles, or russians.......Terrorism has NO nationality


    It crosses ALL societal and geographical boundaries it lives in the mind of the very rich, and it lives in the minds of the very poor. the educated.....Un-educated.... etc etc etc. there is no defined structure or Defined Ideology it is as fleeting as ones thoughts


    one day ordinary citizen going about routine life the next day rogue Killer, living in a cave in tora bora training to sliegh the infedel........or perhaps in an Irish pub Plotting the next London Bombing......or in a grass hut in mindinoa Phillipines training with PI guerillas to overthrow the govt


    Terrorism isnt definable ...no way to Achieve a Victory over an intangable item as Terrorism is....you may get some muslims to "change theyre minds" even if you get ALL of them to change theyre minds YOU STILL HAVE NOT eliminated or defeated Terrorism as an ideology it will continue to prevail throughout time

    there is no attainable defeat here im sorry your mistaken
     
  7. vyo476

    vyo476 Well-Known Member

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    I think I see what you're saying. We can't defeat "terrorism," only "terrorists." Clever. I agree with that; and I wish I could say that our goal in Iraq was simply to defeat a group of terrorists and not "terrorism" as a whole. Unfortunately, Mr. Bush has managed, through his general lack of communications skills, to make "terrorism" our target, so yeah...I suppose you're right.

    There is a way to defeat "terrorism" and that is to not be afraid. We might "eliminate" it but we'd be beating it.

    Still, with the appropriate change of course I still think something we could all call a victory could come out of Iraq. Win their hearts and minds and all that - although I'll admit that I haven't the faintest clue how to go about doing that.
     
  8. drippinhun

    drippinhun Well-Known Member

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    I have been and could easily become a "terrorist" if provoked. If someone seriously harms a member of my family. I'm going after their family first.

    You can't defeat the feelings within one's mind. And murdering more fellow countrymen in Iraq is not the prescription to get these acts of retaliation and tribal pride to stop.
     
  9. lipmonkey

    lipmonkey Well-Known Member

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    If there is good news or progress in Iraq I'm sure as hell not reading about it, other than bull**** reports from the government, both ours and theirs.:confused:
     
  10. jb_1430

    jb_1430 Well-Known Member

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    Same way you win against Fascism, Communism, Imperialism etc. They still exist. The ideology will never surrender or sign a treaty. Best we can hope for is for it to whither and fade.
    I would rather wage war against it, as opposed to accepting it, allowing it to achieve its goals and encouraging its use. Even if it can never be eliminated.
    MARK
     
  11. what a pointless ideology you have

    to wage a war that you know you cannot win

    pointless and arrogant
     
  12. USMC the Almighty

    USMC the Almighty Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to eliminate the ideology -- you simply have to defeat it to the point of "threatlessness". That is, I would argue, a win.
     
  13. you cannot achieve that with terrorism
    it is being demonstrated daily as they use 35 dollar IED's to F^ck up our troops on a daily basis
     
  14. jb_1430

    jb_1430 Well-Known Member

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    What part of "same way you win", did you not understand? Annihilation and elimination of the enemy isnt required for a "win" in war. MARK
     
  15. USMC the Almighty

    USMC the Almighty Well-Known Member

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    Sure you can. It doesn't happen within one generation. Most of the time you have to kill the current generation that perpetrates the ideology while concurrently making the specific ideology unappealing to the next generation.

    A perfect example would be the IRA in Ireland. The next generation was simply convinced that the IRA was not the way to go and they had better options, thus the fighting stopped. The same must be done w/ Islamic Fascists.
     
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