Discussion in 'House of Politics Lounge' started by Iftikhar, Oct 30, 2010.
So the way things are done in government schools is failure prone - I get it, I get it.
What proof is better than a kid taking a long, boring test when the outcome doesn't matter to him? Well, gee, let me think: Oh yes, practically anything. grades, writing samples, reading inventories, yes a lot of things.
No, saying that your opinion was based not on logic, fact, or experience but ideology was an observation about the content of your posts. Were I to infer that you were, for example, a pussy, or that all of your questions were "stupid", that would be an ad hominem attack.
If you've been teaching for years, then you already know about government schools. If all you've done is work as a teaching assistant at the college level, then I'd need a lot more space than one post on a forum to fill you in. Did you attend a public school? If so, then for starters, you know that teachers don't spend a lot of time showing movies, whether Michael Moore made them or not.
Thanks for the example of an ad hominem attack.
If you think the tests are 'dumbed down", then you (1) haven't had the opportunity to take one recently, and (2) didn't read my explanation about why they are bogus.
You do realize that this is a public forum?
Or did you think this was a private conversation?
You see, it really doesn't matter whether or not you think you have won some unjudged debate. The other readers will decide for themselves.
Oh, right. Since they're private schools, you have to pay to play. I wonder what will happen to kids whose parents can't afford school? Oh, right. There are always sweatshops. Maybe we could learn from the Chinese.
You keep wanting to extrapolate the half-assed way things are in governments schools to a radically new system. Illogic on steroids.
No actually it's based on all those things - the over a hundred year experience of competitive systems creating superior products and services compared to socialist monopolies. Example: the west german mercedes compared to the east german trabant. Monopolistic, government ordained systems with no competition and employees who can't be fired have no real incentive to produce a better product, and all logic and experience supports that, but you're too blind to see it because you're a walking encyclopedia of teachers union propaganda. When private firms don't perform, they go out of business because they lose their customers who go to the well-performing business down the street. When government monopolies don't perform, they just go on.... and on and on and on. Even a thick-skulled government teacher could just possible grasp the logic - maybe not you.
See, when you talk about "us" it sounds as if you were trying to bolster your lame position by purporting to be a spokesman for everyone else in the thread, it's really sort of pussy-like - know what I mean?
Can you actually READ, Mr. Government school teacher??? If so , go back a few posts and absorb the REST of my teaching resume.
Yes. My freshman year at university hit me like a ton of bricks - I got a C- average and realized I hadn't been taught to think in the wretched government schools I had attended. (Could tell you lots of stories about the crummy teachers in grade school and high school!). I buckled down and worked very hard and was on the dean's list a few quarters later and most of the time after that.
I've seen the results - the US coming in behind such as slovenia on the TIMSS tests.
I already covered that Mr. Tonedeaf. Go back and look. You're so busy listening to yourself you appear to have missed half what I said.
And that relates to secondary public school education how? You had students who paid money to be there. Try the same thing in a school where the students would rather be elsewhere, incompetent administrators, and hostile, meddlesome over-protective parents who frequently intervene on behalf of their loutish children. The conditions in which you thought are quite different from those who are refereed to as "teachers".
Oh, I get it now. You were one of those louts who were lazy and unmotivated in elementary and high school. And, later in life rationalize their lack of motivation on the system and teachers they had. While at the same time, ignoring the fact that many of their classmates in the very same system applied themselves and received a good education, good grades, and were prepared when they entered college. In short, one cannot make chicken salad out of chicken s....
I've BEEN in government schools as a student, K through 12, I SAW what happened, and as an adult, I can evaluate it. You keep on blabbering about conditions in government schools, while purporting to be in opposition to my proposed system which is radically DIFFERENT. ONCE AGAIN, (ears open this time???) in universally privatized schools disruptive students would be quickly booted OUT. Reread the last sentence eight times.
No "rationalization" about bad teachers is necessary. In high school, citing just one example, there was Mrs. Gould (we called her "Mrs. Ghoul") the "english teacher". She usually came to class either sick or drunk. I remember one time she came in and just laid her head down on the desk and went to sleep. When the student chattering became too loud, she roused herself enough to lift her head off the desk and said "You rotten kids - you can SEE I'm sick (translate "sick" ) and you won't let me sleep!"
Come on, Pinocchio. It is becoming all too obvious you are making it up as you go. It is too bad that we cannot connect you to a polygraph via your computer.
In your dreams, "...in universally privatized schools disruptive students would be quickly booted OUT..." And in your dreams how many angles can dance on the head of a pin? Your personal opinion that privatization of public schools would result in rectifying all education's problems, is just an unproved theory offered by someone who managed a low grade point average in high school. Every dullard I met in high school had the answers for everything. Very convincing.
I couldn't care less what you believe. Lots of government schools are hellholes and need to be done away with - it's long overdue. It appears most of you government school types don't know how bad it can get.
Ah, you've finally given up even the pretense of debate, and fallen back on the inevitable "DUHHHHHH, it won't work, because, DUHHHHHH, it won't work!!!" plus the rest of the incoherent mental masturbation. And we can trust your expert opinion because your a representative of the FAILED government school system which is dragging this country down. I welcome your raising of the white flag - now quit cluttering the thread, 'kay? Scat.
I know how bad it can get...I experienced it. But what I do know is that it was/is not the fault of the teachers or the unions and privatization is not the magical answer.
I experienced it to for 12 years, and was let down by it. Like millions of other students, I mostly got where I am now INSPITE of it, not because of it. By falsely suggesting the reasons I offered are "magical", you are just once again ducking debate. In no other profession besides teaching would anyone claim after failing that "Duh, it's not my fault." As for teachers unions, they have been devastating to the US in many ways, eg they take union dues and spend it on a wide variety of leftwing causes, extending the harm they do far beyond the schools. Eg, they fully support the illegal alien invasion because it would mean more fodder for their wretched schools. The leftwing generally is also culpabale, politicizing the curriculum, injecting their homosexual agenda, suppressing free religious expression, pushing historical revisionism, adopting crackpot pedogogical methods, etc etc.
Oh boy! Now the teacher's union has caused the alien invasion!!! For some one (me)that would use an armed civilian militia to stop aliens, I find that laughable.
And of course the right wind is not culpable of attempting to introduce religion in the form of creationism into the curriculum and pass it off as science and maintain its archaic mono-theistic Christian domination of the school system while enforcing a mandatory pledge of allegiance.
Uh, what, "crackpot pedogogical [SIC,pedagogical] methods", are you referring to? Do you mean the "new math", that was introduced in to the curriculum (not a pedagogical method) by the Michigan State Board of Education during the Engler (Republican) Administration?
You don't even know what you're own left wingers are doing with your dues! Check it out: for just ONE example, they worked real hard to get the "DREAM Act" passed to help the illegals.
Yeah, the leftwingers prefer the anti-christian, anti-religion bias they work into everything. The difference is, the right wing doesn't ILLEGALLY use teachers union dues. And what the hell is wrong with asking an oath of allegience to a country from someone who is getting a free education from it?
How about "whole language", which has created a whole generation of illiterates?
More support for illegal alien invaders:
At their 2009 california state convention, the NEA advocated in-state tuition for illegals at universities:
In other words, AMERICAN CITIZENS have to pay huge out of state tuition, while people who shouldn't even be in the country, much less in our universites, should get a break on tuition.
Yaaaa, tell me all about how teachers unions don't help illegals. You lose on the FACTS.
I pledge allegiance (without condition...no matter what the government does or to whom, even if it means killing Jews), to the flag (exactly what does that mean?) of the United States of American, to the republic for which it stands, on nation under God (Ein Gott, One God), inadvisable (Ein Reich, One Government) , with liberty and justice for all [all people] (Ein Folk One People). All the is left out is, Ein Fuhrer, One Leader.
Pledging allegiance to a flag is ambiguous. It is also does not imply any conditions. It is very similar to the oath recited by the Nazi's. It serves no practical purpose except to identify those who chose not to recite it, just like the Nazi oath.A more appropriate oath would be:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same."
Note: When entering the service of the United States Military, one does not recite the Pledge of Allegiance, one recites the following oath:
The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for commissioned officers are as follows:
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).
"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)
Riiiiiiiight - pledging allegiance to america is like pledging allegiance to nazi germany - see why you can't debate leftwingers?
It's a harmless expression of patriotism. Only a leftwing nutcase who starts having paranoid fantasies when patriotism comes up could get bent out of shape by it.
Yes, basically harmless and meaningless as well.
You are pledging to be loyal to the flag, not to the Constitution? To the Republic? Does that mean the government currently in power, the system of laws, the people, or what? One nation under god (Whose god?) indivisible (OK, we promise not to secede) What does "justice for all" mean? Sounds kind of Marxist to me.
No, I have no problem with the pledge. It can mean whatever the person reciting it wants it to mean anyway.
To which you answered:
It would appear that you do not know what ambiguous means.
Separate names with a comma.