Free Our Schools

[PLC1]

It is somewhat amusing to hear the opinions on what is the root cause of failing secondary education in this courntry...from someone who has never been a teacher. For their benefit, I will tell you the three reasons why our schools are failing: 1) Lack of discipline. 2) Lack of discipline. 3) Lack of discipline.

Agreed 100%, except when we begin to hear drivel about how unions are promoting "leftist BS" and ruining our schools from people who actually have an audience, it is maddening to think how many people are buying into their garbage. When we hear the same on an internet forum, it is simply amusing.

 

[Rick]

It is somewhat amusing to hear the opinions on what is the root cause of failing secondary education in this courntry...from someone who has never been a teacher. For their benefit, I will tell you the three reasons why our schools are failing: 1) Lack of discipline. 2) Lack of discipline. 3) Lack of discipline.

I taught as a TA in grad school, and also occasionaly at career colleges and community colleges, and I know the system inside and out. The cure, as I said, is privatization.

 

[dahermit]

I taught as a TA in grad school, and also occasionally at career colleges and community colleges, and I know the system inside and out. The cure, as I said, is privatization.

The problem of poor education is integral to primary and secondary education. There has never been a problem with the American post-secondary system as evidenced by the number of foreign students who choose our colleges and universities.
Therefore, you particular experience (post-secondary) is not relevant to the problem.

 

[dahermit]

Nevertheless, what elements in the public school system would privatization address and how would exactly would privatization fix the problem? Please do not use generalizations; be specific.

 

[Rick]

The problem of poor education is integral to primary and secondary education. There has never been a problem with the American post-secondary system as evidenced by the number of foreign students who choose our colleges and universities.
Therefore, you particular experience (post-secondary) is not relevant to the problem.

Nonsense - for just one example of university education problems: grade inflation.
Another: institutionalized anti-white male bias.
Another: suppression of free speech on campus.
Another: discrimination against conservative faculty hiring in the humanities and social sciences.
Another: the tenure system.
Another: the leftwing politicization of subject material.
Another: the growth of faux disciplines - the "studies" departments.
Many others.

Also, saying anyone isn't qualified to comment on K12 education unless they were a K12 teacher is like saying you can't comment on the iraq or afghan war unless you fought there as a soldier - obvious BS.

 

[dahermit]

Nonsense - for just one example of university education problems: grade inflation.
Another: institutionalized anti-white male bias.
Another: suppression of free speech on campus.
Another: discrimination against conservative faculty hiring in the humanities and social sciences.
Another: the tenure system.
Another: the leftwing politicization of subject material.
Another: the growth of faux disciplines - the "studies" departments.
Many others.

Also, saying anyone isn't qualified to comment on K12 education unless they were a K12 teacher is like saying you can't comment on the iraq or afghan war unless you fought there as a soldier - obvious BS.

So, after you have provided actual data that proves the above, I am waiting with baited breath for your specifics on how privatization will improve secondary education.

 

[Gipper]

Wow! Okay to my lefties buddies who posted in this thread (both teachers - not surprised) you are delusional. Ask any conservative with children in the g-schools and they will tell you horror stories of lefty teachers imposing liberal BS on their students.

My children have never walked the halls of a g-school because of this. I have dealt with lefty teachers in my children's private school. They are everywhere.

But, this proves once again our differences. You guys do not see it, I do.

For example, the g-schools show Mikey Moore's dumbass movies to grade schoolers and you guys see no problem with that. Right? That is not liberal BS. That is the way it is...you think.

And another thing...you are delusional about, is the teachers unions. They are socialists and promote socialism. Yet, you are too dense to see it. The unions have no interest in educating children. It is all about getting more benes and promoting socialism. Kill the unions now!

 

[dahermit]

Nice rant. Albeit, no data, citations, links, proof. Just a rant.

 

[PLC1]

Nice rant. Albeit, no data, citations, links, proof. Just a rant.

You expected maybe, facts? logic? links to real information? Perhaps a response to the challenge to find "liberal BS" in the California curriculum I posted?

I don't think your expectations are likely to be met.

 

[dahermit]

You expected maybe, facts? logic? links to real information? Perhaps a response to the challenge to find "liberal BS" in the California curriculum I posted?

I don't think your expectations are likely to be met.

I was particularly interested in his statement that Michael Moore's movies were shown in grade school.

I would not have shown his movies to grade school students. I might have been tempted to show some of his movies in selective classes in High School, but for the purpose of showing how, and discussing, how a movie can influence via demagoguery (Bowling for Columbine) a particular view.

Nevertheless, I learned early on that any movie of a political nature will be viewed negatively by at least some of the parents (who would then certainly complain) and it much safer just to not offer anything that is not likely to be viewed as completely benign. The squeaking wheel gets the boot.

 

[PLC1]

I was particularly interested in his statement that Michael Moore's movies were shown in grade school.

I would not have shown his movies to grade school students. I might have been tempted to show some of his movies in selective classes in High School, but for the purpose of showing how, and discussing, how a movie can influence via demagoguery (Bowling for Columbine) a particular view.

Nevertheless, I learned early on that any movie of a political nature will be viewed negatively by at least some of the parents (who would then certainly complain) and it much safer just to not offer anything that is not likely to be viewed as completely benign. The squeaking wheel gets the boot.

Do you mean to say that you didn't spend your time in between extolling the gay lifestyle and teaching kids how to use condoms to show Michael Moore movies and left wing excerpts from MSNBC? Why, you must not have been popular with the libs that Gipper keeps harping about.

 

[dahermit]

Do you mean to say that you didn't spend your time in between extolling the gay lifestyle and teaching kids how to use condoms to show Michael Moore movies and left wing excerpts from MSNBC? Why, you must not have been popular with the libs that Gipper keeps harping about.

No, the "students" I had to contend with were already well versed in every perversion known to man. They were very creative however, in their attempts at fire-bombing the English teacher's car, defecating on the floor next to the toilets, and smearing feces on the restroom mirror. They also would take a dump on the top of a teacher's desk if they found the opportunity.
Thanks for bringing back the memories I had suppressed.

 

[Gipper]

First, Ludington Geezer, you post on Hillsdale and Engler without citation. You consistently post without citation. Yet, you have the nerve to attack me when I consistently do post with citation. I posted in this thread multiple citations, yet you being so $$#$#^$^$%^% were unable to comprehend.

We can conclude that both of you do not know Moore and Fat Al's movies get regular play in the g-schools. This is proof you both have no clue what is going on. Hell, my kids in private school were shown Fat Al's dumb movie.

See the movie Waiting For Superman (no doubt you never heard of it since you lib news outlets never told you)...a movie is likely better for you oldsters to understand things, since it is apparent you can't read and comprehend. The director also directed Fat Al's movie which no doubt you both greatly enjoyed and believed.

How does an American living today not know the g-schools and the teachers unions are infested with liberalism? How out of touch must one be?

 

[Rick]

So, after you have provided actual data that proves the above

Sorry, I don't exist to tutor you on extremely well-known facts. Hit google and read up.

 

[Rick]

Here we go:

The government socialist near monopoly created all the usual consequences from such monopolies: high prices, poor outcomes, politicization, etc.

A universal privatized system would cure all the problems. Education would be turned over to private firms. The key is competition between such firms in providing a superior product. The curriculum would be that demanded by the customers, which are the parents. The state would set minimal requirements for the curricula for such private educational schools, devoid of all the Pee See garbage that infects government K12 curricula.

The teachers would be former teachers of the government school systems. Teachers would make good or make room - rentention and pay and promotion would be based on performance, as opposed to seniority and degrees in the current system.

Competition between firms would wipe out the bloated administrative models that government K12 systems have.

Non-performing teachers would be fired, non-performing schools would go out of business. Accrediting would be by private firms.

Any child could go to any school at his level.

Parents would be accountable for their own education bills. Poor and special needs children would be given vouchers by the state.

Trouble causing students would not be allowed to disrupt the learning environment, but would be shown the front door.

Result: High outcomes, involved parents, bad schools and teachers eliminated, costs reduced.