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Federal government finally goes totally insane, bonkers, off the deep end.

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by PLC1, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. PLC1 Super Moderator

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    U.S. gift of F-16 fighters headed to Egypt, despite Morsi's harsh rhetoric


    So, now we're arming the Muslim Brotherhood via the leader who says:
    Can anyone find any justification for this at all? I've looked and looked, and can find none, nor any explanation other than that our government leaders have finally gone totally nuts and need to be committed.


  2. dogtowner Super Moderator

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    Israel has to buy theirs.

    I read somewhere the MusBros are to get Abrams tanks as well, Can anyone be surprised that this administration that has shown Israel nothing but contempt (at best) is now materially working toward Israel's demise ?

    I know I'm not surprised one bit.

    Did you see that Israel has abandoned plan s to neutralize Iran's nuclear capacity ? They got the word that we would at best do nothing and at worst inhibit it.

    The middle east belongs to the muzzies. Africa is next.
  3. Cruella Well-Known Member

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    Oh that's an easy one.

    Muslim Brotherhood in the White House



  4. dogtowner Super Moderator

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  5. PLC1 Super Moderator

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    I'm not sure just what a "palatable bias in favor of Islam" might mean, but sending arms to the likes of Hosni Mubarik is way more than "favoring Islam." It is supporting a dictatorial regime that supports hate.

    Now, if they wanted to support Muslims in say, India or Indonesia for example, and do it some other way besides giving them F16s and tanks, that would be quite different, wouldn't it?
  6. dogtowner Super Moderator

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    muslims in indonesia and india don't have the nation of pigs and dogs Israel as a next door neighbor.
  7. PLC1 Super Moderator

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    I'm not sure what that means, either, but I'm sure that Egypt is way up there with Iran and NK among nations we don't want to give military arms to.
  8. Cruella Well-Known Member

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    The M B President of Egypt, Morsi, calls the Jews pigs and dogs.

    Obama gives weapons to all of them. The arms he pushed into Libya have shown up in Syria and recently into East Africa. I think even Hillary has discussed this problem. The left was thrilled to encourage the Muslim Spring, only to find that their utopian Hope and Change might turn into America's Winter a few years down the road.

    The rest of the world is becoming more dangerous, while our military is being dismantled and wussified.
  9. pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    did you have any problem arming a leader who killed and tortured his own people who was never elected? WE are Arming Egypt...Not the Muslim Brotherhood...when some nation sells the US arms, they don't say they sold them to the party in power at the time...We have sold them to the Sauds for years and look how bad they are...Only reason no one bitches is oil.
  10. pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    you can argue it sure, but if you do your a idiot. And how many Musilms does he have to kill to make you happy?
  11. Gipper Well-Known Member

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    Could it be those arms BO gives to the Muslim Brotherhood (aka Egyptian Dictatorship), might be used to suppress rioting Egyptians, who do not want another dictatorship...particularly a murderous Sharia dictatorship....rather than used to attack Israel? If true, it reveals the true nature of the big eared King in the White House....
  12. PLC1 Super Moderator

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    I'm sure they could be used in whatever way the Egyptian government decides to use them. As far as I know, there are no restrictions placed on them, and, if there were, they couldn't be enforced anyway.
  13. PLC1 Super Moderator

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    Yes, there is a long history of arming countries that we'd be better off not having armed. I'm not sure what unelected leader you're talking about, but there is no doubt we've armed such regimes in the past.

    No nation gives the United States arms or, as far as I know, anything else. This is a part of our foreign aid giveaway that seems to go willy nilly to friends and enemies alike. Yes, it has been going on a long time, but that doesn't mean it should continue. It's time to stop it.
  14. Cruella Well-Known Member

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    That makes as much sense as giving F-16's or plutonium to Iran, the country of course, not the government.

    Oh...and just so you know, Egypt has very little oil.
  15. GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    Fast & Furious I: Gave Assault Rifles to Mexican Drug Cartels

    Fast & Furious II: Gave F-16's to Middle East Dictators

    Coming soon - Fast & Furious III: Providing Nukes to Al Qaeda

    [IMG]
  16. BigRob Super Moderator

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    There are a few things that need to be said in regards to all of this.

    First, Congress approves such aid to Egpyt, and continues to do so. The Secretary of State can waive certain requirements in the interest of national security, but again, that is an issue for Congress to address -- something they won't do.

    Next, Egypt is at a major crossroads. This is the time that will ultimately decide if they are pushed towards a relatively stable somewhat pro-western country, or an extremist dictatorship that promotes terrorism and destabilizes the region. Egypt is a huge player in the Middle East, and they hold a lot of sway. It is important that we make every effort to push them as much as possible towards at least some form of a stable, pro-western regime -- whatever form that takes. Politically speaking, it would be a huge win for the extremist elements in Egypt if America were to suddenly end foreign aid. They could use the issue to gain even more power, and further cast moderate elements in the country aside. It is imperative that we do not allow this to occur.

    Certainly this is a gamble to an extent, and we should not focus solely on the military as a partner, or we will ultimately end up on the losing end. We need to continue to pursue partnerships with the military, but also make a big effort with the civilian leadership as well.

    Not to mention, we should remember that Egypt is vitally important to the United States, because they control the Suez Canal -- the importance of which simply cannot be understated.

    Further, yes the F-16 is a solid airplane, but simply giving a good plane to Egypt does not put them on par with someone like Israel for example. Pilot skill is very important, as well as training, the ability to get replacement parts for these aircraft, as well as conduct general maintence. I saw an argument from the Center for Strategic and International Studies in this regard that I think was spot on. It amounted to the concept that to maintain the software and munitions components you basically had to have access to US suppliers...something which further gives the United States a bargaining chip to help shape the future of Egypt.

    So, is the timing bad? Probably. Is this really all that big a deal? I don't think so.
  17. Cruella Well-Known Member

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    Egypt can protect the suez without F-16's. Those are very sophisticated fighter jets. I see only one reason Egypt would want them, and the word starts with a capital "I".
  18. BigRob Super Moderator

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    I don't see how this is related to "protection of the Suez"....I brought up the Suez as a major interest that the United States has in Egypt....that aside, I tend to doubt Egypt would be able to (or want to) mount a prolonged air campaign against Israel without access to American suppliers to get replacement parts for the planes. Not saying it would never occur, but I tend to think the odds are slim.
  19. Cruella Well-Known Member

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    The moderates are back out in the streets protesting Morsi. Hope he doesn't act like Assad and use those planes, tanks and money we are giving him on the Egyptian people that wanted a democracy.
  20. pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    F-16 to dictators? Have you been under a rock for the ...well since the f-16 was built? The funny thing is the Egypt is actually the only middle east nation outside of Israel we sold them to, that actually did have a Election that was Fair ( relatively at least). Fact is you realy don't care if its a Dictatorship , you want a Dictatorship for them..They can only have Democracy of they vote for your interests and ideas not there own.

    Also funny you guys still bitch about guns being sold to go to Mexico...while supporting the laws and loopholes that make it so anyone can go buy assault rifle and sell them to Mexico. You Only Bitch because its Obama...the Sad pathetic Republicans Bitched about How Obama shot and killed poor teens ( pirate hijactors) you bitched he did not Kill Bin Ladin the way you wanted...you are just sad poor saps who need to cry about anything he does. If he saved a kitten you would bitch.

    Stop pretending all the sudden you care about f-16 sales to "dictators in the middle east" while you said nothing when republicans sold them to real dictators. Also Stop Pretending your not for Dictators...you are.

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