Elevate illeage alien to felony status

dahermit

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
1,916
If the status of entering the united states illegally were to be changed from misdemeanor (as it is now), to a felony (which it should be), then it would become legal (in most states) to apprehend the offenders with "citizens arrest". This could be used by private citizens and volunteer groups ("Minute Men", Militias) to augment the over-stretched and under-resourced border patrol in the Southwest.

Anticipating the argument that using citizen arrest will lead to occasional excesses and even possible deaths; I will point out that the use of police to arrest felons leads to excesses and possible deaths.

The problem of illegal aliens is of the magnitude that such a suggested measure is preferable to doing what is being done now, and likely to be done by the insipid measures likely to be enacted by our government.
 
Werbung:
Why would you want to apply a status to these people other than being illegal immigrants and liable for instant deportation? What you are effectively suggesting is a lawyers dream!

Just chuck the mothers out!


[rant]
Jeez the UK is awash with illegal immigrants and each one has to have a court hearing to determind status etc. etc. just chuck the buggers out and sod their rights and status.
[/rant]
 
Why not just fine the crap out of anyone who knowingly hires illegals? If the jobs dry up, the illegals will go home. It's really not that difficult.

If people want to come to the US badly enough to sneak past the border patrol, then let them want to come badly enough to abide by our laws and come openly.
 
PREFACE: The illegal immigration issue is one that I will freely admit isnt really that local of an issue to my state. I am very largely removed from the situation that is found in other states. That does not mean we do not have illegal immigrants in Alaska, but they are often eastern european or asian and mostly come via air or sea.

If the status of entering the united states illegally were to be changed from misdemeanor (as it is now), to a felony (which it should be), then it would become legal (in most states) to apprehend the offenders with "citizens arrest". This could be used by private citizens and volunteer groups ("Minute Men", Militias) to augment the over-stretched and under-resourced border patrol in the Southwest.
What about all of the other points of entry for illegals?
I think the first thing to do is to give the border security the priority and resources necessary to secure it to minimize crossing outside of a normal port of entry.
I also think it is a really bad idea to send a bunch of volunteers out in this day and age to play cops. I see this potentially turning into some sort of lynch mob and hysteria. I am not sure of the laws in Texas in terms of citizens arrest of a felony, but I think it would be a bad idea to give normal people the power to "apprehend" a felony suspect in this case. I dont think it would be very American to have militias cruising through neighborhoods and somehow determining who is legal or not and somehow detaining them. I see a vey potentially dangerous slippery slope.
Anticipating the argument that using citizen arrest will lead to occasional excesses and even possible deaths; I will point out that the use of police to arrest felons leads to excesses and possible deaths.
Even licensed commercial pilots crash planes through thier own error on a sadly routine basis. I wouldnt want an enthusiastic volunteer to fly my plane. I support protecting ones self, and property %100 from threats, but this is a slippery slope we should back away from.
The problem of illegal aliens is of the magnitude that such a suggested measure is preferable to doing what is being done now, and likely to be done by the insipid measures likely to be enacted by our government.
There is no easy answer, or else we would have fixed it already.
I think a huge issue is to deal with the people and companies who are making it more than viable for illegal migrant labor to be successful in the job market.
 
Re: Elevate illegal alien to felony status

Why not just fine the crap out of anyone who knowingly hires illegals? If the jobs dry up, the illegals will go home. It's really not that difficult.
A fine is not likely to help much. But, a five year mandatory prison sentence would likely be a better deterrent to hiring illegals. Nevertheless, your solution of punishing the employers may work, but it does not address the very major problem with most of the felonies in the Southwest are being committed by illegal aliens. Those illegals are not coming to work in the U.S. they are coming for the better criminal pickings.
 
I also think it is a really bad idea to send a bunch of volunteers out in this day and age to play cops. I see this potentially turning into some sort of lynch mob and hysteria. I am not sure of the laws in Texas in terms of citizens arrest of a felony, but I think it would be a bad idea to give normal people the power to "apprehend" a felony suspect in this case. I dont think it would be very American to have militias cruising through neighborhoods and somehow determining who is legal or not and somehow detaining them. I see a vey potentially dangerous slippery slope.
.
Most states have the power to arrest felons who are committing a felony in their presents now. There are already militias and private citizens patrolling some parts of the Southwest now, who report, via cell phone to border patrol when they see illegals entering the country. As it is, not enough of them. As to not being, "...very American to have militias cruising through neigpborhoods...", that is a personal opinion and outside of the scope of what I intended. I intended that the volunteers be positioned on the remote sections of the border where it is obvious who is or is not an alien, not in populated areas. A "...dangerous slippery slope...", is preferable to what is going on now.

There is no easy answer, or else we would have fixed it already.
I think a huge issue is to deal with the people and companies who are making it more than viable for illegal migrant labor to be successful in the job market.
There is no easy answer because there are powerful lobbies and people who want the presents of low-paid labor. And politicians are aware that Hispanic citizens are sympathetic to illegals and will vote against politicians who will introduce or support effective measures to keep illegals out.
 
If they make it seriously illegal to hire illegal aliens, too many of our politicians and business leaders will have to go to jail!
 
Re: Elevate illegal alien to felony status

A fine is not likely to help much. But, a five year mandatory prison sentence would likely be a better deterrent to hiring illegals. Nevertheless, your solution of punishing the employers may work, but it does not address the very major problem with most of the felonies in the Southwest are being committed by illegal aliens. Those illegals are not coming to work in the U.S. they are coming for the better criminal pickings.

I would agree that any law that was enacted to prevent employers from hiring illegals must have serious teeth to it. For those who can afford the fines, it is nothing but another operating cost. For those who cant afford the fine, they declare bankruptcy and hide in court hiding through a company.

Until Mexico and the rest of Latin America can improve thier situation enough to keep thier poor from wanting to flee en masse to the north by land the desire to do so with the apparent relative ease it happens. Still this does not address the folks who fly to America on a tourist or student visa and never leave until forced to, or work when they are not supposed to. I wont even get into ship stowaways...
 
Most states have the power to arrest felons who are committing a felony in their presents now. There are already militias and private citizens patrolling some parts of the Southwest now, who report, via cell phone to border patrol when they see illegals entering the country. As it is, not enough of them. As to not being, "...very American to have militias cruising through neigpborhoods...", that is a personal opinion and outside of the scope of what I intended. I intended that the volunteers be positioned on the remote sections of the border where it is obvious who is or is not an alien, not in populated areas. A "...dangerous slippery slope...", is preferable to what is going on now.
I am aware of the minutemen and how the situation works, I think there are some serious potential issues that arise. I also think that if the locals are ok with the efforts then who am I to say much from 4,000 miles and culturally on the moon from where this is a ongoing and by all appearances deteriorating situation on the Mexican border.

I also know that it wasnt your intent to have deportation squads watching the parks. I see the potential that because if being an illegal alien is a felony and thier mere existance in the country means they are committing a felony that the average citizen in states with laws such as that might have that right or priveledge or responsibility or however you want to define it.

There is no easy answer because there are powerful lobbies and people who want the presents of low-paid labor. And politicians are aware that Hispanic citizens are sympathetic to illegals and will vote against politicians who will introduce or support effective measures to keep illegals out.
You and I are in agreement here. Now here is what I began saying and continue to since probably late 2003.
Considering the issues with not only illegal immigrants pouring over the Mexican border, not to mention a signifigant amount of our illegal drugs already coming in that way, and often with the same people. Why do/did we have 100,000 troops at a staggering cost and notable death toll in Iraq when we have the porous Mexican border that goes largely unprotected.
Imagine if we would have left Iraq diplomatically and militarily isolated as they were before 2003, and instead would have deployed lets say 30,000 of those troops to the remote parts of the border probably would have been a better use of the money. Remember, Mexico provides us with signifigantly more oil than Iraq does.
 
Re: The problem of illegal aliens crossing the Southern border. 1) As many as 2/3 of the felonies in the southwestern United States are committed by illegal aliens. 2) Illegal drugs are often packed in by persons crossing the border illegally. 3) A great amount of uncompensated damage is caused to agribusiness and meat production by illegals. They cut fences, and destroy closed water irrigation and livestock watering systems in order to obtain drinking water. 4) Illegals depress the wages of American citizens. They work for less and often paid in cash so that employers can avoid paying taxes. They often take jobs that Americans will do. For instance many illegals work in the construction trades which are traditionally well-paid. 5) Illegals tax the social service resources of the border states and the Federal Government. 6) Many Illegals send the bulk of their wages back to Mexico and out of local circulation. 7) Many illegals drive without drivers licenses and/or insurance.

What do the local governments(sheriff departments), does to stop illegals? Very little. They respond to reports of damage to the resources of Agribusiness by taking reports. Unless called, they seldom leave the roads.
What do the State Governments do to stop illegals. Very little except to complain to the Federal Government and request relief from the problem. A governor of a state in the Southwest is very aware of the large number of Hispanic voters in his district and must tread with caution.
What does the Federal Government do to stop illegals. They patrol, put up road blocks, respond to individual complaints of specific instances of a person being an undocumented alien. Many parts of the border are unprotected except by a hostile natural environment. To sum, the efforts of the Federal Government to counter illegal immigration are obviously inadequate.
This begs the question: At what point, after it is shown that the various governments are ineffective at controlling the problem (cannot or will not do its mandated job of protecting the citizens), does it become morally acceptable for the affected citizens to use some form of vigilantism?
 
Werbung:
Why do/did we have 100,000 troops at a staggering cost and notable death toll in Iraq when we have the porous Mexican border that goes largely unprotected.
Imagine if we would have left Iraq diplomatically and militarily isolated as they were before 2003, and instead would have deployed lets say 30,000 of those troops to the remote parts of the border probably would have been a better use of the money. Remember, Mexico provides us with signifigantly more oil than Iraq does.

I believe that there is a law prohibiting the use of Federal troops in the individual states against civilians. The National Guard are State troops until called up for some emergency by the president.
 
Back
Top