Economy 101

Valkyrie

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It occurs to me that a lot of people are fairly uninformed when it comes to the way an economy works. I'm no expert by any means, but some things are pretty obvious anyway.

1) Imagine a country where nobody spends any money. No one gets rich, and nobody becomes poor. No products are bought or sold, nothing is manufactured, and no services are available.

What kind of economy is this? Nonexistent. And if 90% of the population does not spend, it isn't much better. When people do not spend, there is no economic growth.

Thoughts?
 
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It occurs to me that a lot of people are fairly uninformed when it comes to the way an economy works. I'm no expert by any means, but some things are pretty obvious anyway.

1) Imagine a country where nobody spends any money. No one gets rich, and nobody becomes poor. No products are bought or sold, nothing is manufactured, and no services are available.

What kind of economy is this? Nonexistent. And if 90% of the population does not spend, it isn't much better. When people do not spend, there is no economic growth.

Thoughts?

Barter works to replace money as a commodity. Did it that way for a long time very successfully with the motivated accumulating much and the unmotivated inventing ways to get something for nothing.
 
It occurs to me that a lot of people are fairly uninformed when it comes to the way an economy works. I'm no expert by any means, but some things are pretty obvious anyway.

1) Imagine a country where nobody spends any money. No one gets rich, and nobody becomes poor. No products are bought or sold, nothing is manufactured, and no services are available.

What kind of economy is this? Nonexistent. And if 90% of the population does not spend, it isn't much better. When people do not spend, there is no economic growth.

Thoughts?
Economies are spontaneously created out of necessity.


Production is the application of reason to the problem of survival.
...​
The root of production is man’s mind; the mind is an attribute of the individual and it does not work under orders, controls and compulsion, as centuries of stagnation have demonstrated. Progress cannot be planned by government, and it cannot be restricted or retarded; it can only be stopped, as every statist government has demonstrated.
...
Have you ever looked for the root of production? Take a look at an electric generator and dare tell yourself that it was created by the muscular effort of unthinking brutes. Try to grow a seed of wheat without the knowledge left to you by men who had to discover it for the first time. Try to obtain your food by means of nothing but physical motions—and you’ll learn that man’s mind is the root of all the goods produced and of all the wealth that has ever existed on earth.
But you say that money is made by the strong at the expense of the weak? What strength do you mean? It is not the strength of guns or muscles. Wealth is the product of man’s capacity to think. Then is money made by the man who invents a motor at the expense of those who did not invent it? Is money made by the intelligent at the expense of the fools? By the able at the expense of the incompetent? By the ambitious at the expense of the lazy? Money is made—before it can be looted or mooched—made by the effort of every honest man, each to the extent of his ability. An honest man is one who knows that he can’t consume more than he has produced.
 
Barter works to replace money as a commodity. Did it that way for a long time very successfully with the motivated accumulating much and the unmotivated inventing ways to get something for nothing.
Great post, Dogtowner!

Bartering did work very well. It was much harder then for the unmotivated to gain by exploiting others, though. The advent of currency prompted unethical people to seek great fortune at the expense of others, I believe.

PART II

Imagine a country where everyone spent every penny they make. This is the most robust economy imaginable- when people spend, companies hire to cover the extra business they're getting. In this type of economy, it is difficult to imagine that significant unemployment would exist at all. Since income taxes are a percentage of income, the government benefits from this type of economy, too.

For those who do not know, the economy only grows when people are spending money.

Any arguments?
 
Economies are spontaneously created out of necessity.


Production is the application of reason to the problem of survival.
...​
The root of production is man’s mind; the mind is an attribute of the individual and it does not work under orders, controls and compulsion, as centuries of stagnation have demonstrated. Progress cannot be planned by government, and it cannot be restricted or retarded; it can only be stopped, as every statist government has demonstrated.
...
Have you ever looked for the root of production? Take a look at an electric generator and dare tell yourself that it was created by the muscular effort of unthinking brutes. Try to grow a seed of wheat without the knowledge left to you by men who had to discover it for the first time. Try to obtain your food by means of nothing but physical motions—and you’ll learn that man’s mind is the root of all the goods produced and of all the wealth that has ever existed on earth.
But you say that money is made by the strong at the expense of the weak? What strength do you mean? It is not the strength of guns or muscles. Wealth is the product of man’s capacity to think. Then is money made by the man who invents a motor at the expense of those who did not invent it? Is money made by the intelligent at the expense of the fools? By the able at the expense of the incompetent? By the ambitious at the expense of the lazy? Money is made—before it can be looted or mooched—made by the effort of every honest man, each to the extent of his ability. An honest man is one who knows that he can’t consume more than he has produced.

Wealth is the product of man’s capacity to think.
Production is the product of a person's ability to think, wealth is the product of greed.

Many, many very smart people are not wealthy. And many wealthy people are not smart. Anyone greedy enough will find a way to gain wealth.

An honest man is one who knows that he can’t consume more than he has produced.
And a greedy man is one who collects more than he can consume, and consumes what others have produced.
 
I'd like to alter to my last post to read:
"And a greedy man is one who collects more than he can consume by consuming what others have produced."

Just makes a nice signature, should I desire one.

:)
 
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The advent of currency prompted unethical people to seek great fortune at the expense of others, I believe.
Are you honestly trying to suggest that, before currency, there were no looters or moochers? Because I would contend that, since the dawn of mankind, there have been some individuals willing to use force, coercion, and trickery, to confiscate property that rightly belongs to someone else.

Imagine a country where everyone spent every penny they make. This is the most robust economy imaginable- when people spend, companies hire to cover the extra business they're getting. In this type of economy, it is difficult to imagine that significant unemployment would exist at all. Since income taxes are a percentage of income, the government benefits from this type of economy, too.

Any arguments?
It's not really an argument so much as an observation....

Begging the question is a type of logical fallacy in which a proposition relies on an implicit premise within itself to establish the truth of that same proposition. In other words, it is a statement that refers to its own assertion to prove the assertion.​
You're premise is that consumption drives an economy and, therefore, having 100% consumption would create the best possible economy is not logical. Goods must be produced before they can be consumed. Increases in consumption must be preceded by increases in production, we cannot consume more than has been produced, and such an increase in production is only possible through savings and investments, i.e. through the accumulation of wealth. That wealth serves as the capital by which new products and techniques are researched and, if efficacious, adopted.

“Economic growth” means the rise of an economy’s productivity, due to the discovery of new products, new techniques, which means: due to the achievements of men’s productive ability. - Ayn Rand

Now, depending on your definition of "spending", it could be said that we already have an economy very much like the one you've described - Thanks to wealth. The savings of one individual is the credit line for another, as is the case when I put money into a bank. The bank takes my money and lends it out to someone else so they can spend it now but repay the loan with interest over time. In the case of investments, the money I've placed into mutual funds serves as a capital stream for the underlying corporations whose stocks and bonds are purchased with my money. Those companies can then use my capital to expand their business and/or upgrade their existing facilities.

Savings and investments represent a volitional, and therefore moral, redistribution of wealth. My savings and investments serve to help grow the economy, and if I'm lucky, my personal wealth will grow along with it. The other form of wealth redistribution is the kind that's done at the hands of the state, it is not volitional, it is forced and therefore immoral. Government takes my money and pisses it away on whatever it likes and, rather than seeing my wealth grow, it's simply gone. The looters, from firms like Solyndra, walk away with millions of our tax dollars while the moochers, from firms like AIG and GM, get to avoid bankruptcy (for a little while anyway) all thanks to the money government took, by threat of force, from taxpayers like me.

On the front end of wealth redistribution is wealth accumulation, and the proposed front end "solution" is equally immoral. The rationale for having government attempt to limit the accumulation of wealth through Progressive taxation is based on the demonstrably false and flawed premise that savings and investments, i.e. wealth, are forever removed from the economy once it's in the hands of a single individual. The cartoon caricature is one of Scrooge McDuck "hoarding" his millions in a personal vault where he can swim in it but nobody else derives any benefit from the wealth he has accumulated. Reality is far different.

The richest billionaire is helping millions of people by virtue of simply having that wealth. Yet such people are irrationally condemned as being "selfish and greedy" by the looters and moochers who either do not understand how economies work or wish to forcibly confiscate that wealth for their own "selfish and greedy" desires. Whether it's sitting in a bank collecting interest or earning dividends from investments, his wealth is already being redistributed - by his own volition - to people who borrow it, or use it as capital, in their own personal pursuit of happiness and, if they're lucky, to create their own wealth.

So... The best possible economy:

The ideal political-economic system is laissez-faire capitalism. It is a system where men deal with one another, not as victims and executioners, nor as masters and slaves, but as traders, by free, voluntary exchange to mutual benefit. It is a system where no man may obtain any values from others by resorting to physical force, and no man may initiate the use of physical force against others. The government acts only as a policeman that protects man’s rights; it uses physical force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use, such as criminals or foreign invaders. In a system of full capitalism, there should be (but, historically, has not yet been) a complete separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church. - Ayn Rand
 
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