Dow Jones down another 371 so far today

[Pandora]

I wonder if Lagboltz only considers the statement applicable when Republicans are in charge...

I can't say for sure but from our conversations since I have come back to the forum, I would guess no. He is probably the most reasonable person I have ever talked to on the left hand side of the isle.

 

[GenSeneca]

Then Lagboltz must be a minority among Democrat voters. Most of the ones I hear think Democrats are the only ones who should ever make decisions about the economy, environment, etc.

 

[Pandora]

Then Lagboltz must be a minority among Democrat voters. Most of the ones I hear think Democrats are the only ones who should ever make decisions about the economy, environment, etc.

Well, I think that could go for republicans too.

His post made sense to me. Neither dems or repubs know what they are doing when making laws on education or climate change exc. that is not what they are experts in

 

[Lagboltz]

Then Lagboltz must be a minority among Democrat voters. Most of the ones I hear think Democrats are the only ones who should ever make decisions about the economy, environment, etc.

I don't know if that's true. Most of my friends are the same way as I am. What you see on this forum and in the media doesn't represent the majority of Dems.

 

[Little-Acorn]

The major purpose of lawmakers is to make (or repeal) laws. Most of them are therefore lawyers. Lawyers understand law but make laws concerning
biology, a field they don't understand;
environmental science, a field they don't understand;
education, a field they don't understand;
and economics, a field they don't understand.

No wonder this country is going bankrupt and downhill by almost any measure.

That's one of the reasons the people who wrote and ratified the Constitution, forbade the Federal Govt from doing anything in those fields, except in very narrow, defined circumstances; and left them to the states and lower governments (or no govts at all).

A hundred-plus years of Constitutional violations by our fanatical big-govt liberals (in both parties) has brought us to the situation we're in now.

 

[Little-Acorn]

BTW, the Dow is UP 187 points so far today!

Hooray!!!

 

[Pandora]

BTW, the Dow is UP 187 points so far today!

Hooray!!!

Thank God!

I will never get to retire if this thing doesn't stabilize!

 

[Lagboltz]

That's one of the reasons the people who wrote and ratified the Constitution, forbade the Federal Govt from doing anything in those fields, except in very narrow, defined circumstances; and left them to the states and lower governments (or no govts at all).

A hundred-plus years of Constitutional violations by our fanatical big-govt liberals (in both parties) has brought us to the situation we're in now.

Do you think the states would do a better job understanding the issues in biology, environmental science, education and economics, all fields they don't understand either?

 

[Little-Acorn]

Do you think the states would do a better job understanding the issues in biology, environmental science, education and economics, all fields they don't understand either?

See the part I put in parentheses.

The Founders didn't command states to tackle these issues. They simply forbade the Fed from doing it. And they left the option open for states to be as smart or as stupid as they wanted to be. And therein lies the hidden genius of the Founders' plan: They left the states (and cities etc.) to COMPETE WITH EACH OTHER.

People can move freely from state to state (or between cities) all they want... and so can businesses. Moving out of the country was a lot tougher in the Founders' day... and it isn't all that easy even today. If one state tries to run a bunch of unwise programs (see Romneycare, Oregon's attempt at universal HC, California's silly environmental laws etc.), people (and especially businesses) can move to another state... and take their taxes with them.

And a lot of them are doing that. States that are wise enough to leave most things to the lowest level of govt - or to the people, as the Constitution mentions - have the best chance of retaining the productive members of their tax base, and so can benefit by their freedom.

Unworkable ideologies don't last long when the people who pay the bills, are free to leave. That's why today's leftist fanatics are concentrating their efforts on the NATIONAL government, and even passing laws such as the "mandate" in Obamacare to force everyone to participate. You have to leave the country to avoid being robbed... and the leftists have messed up most other countries so badly that they are even worse than the U.S. is now.

The United States was founded on the idea that people would be free to make their own decisions and sink or swim by the results, learning with each failure and getting better as time goes on. Today's leftist fanatics are diametrically opposed to that idea, and are trying to expand government to intrude into and direct more and more of our activites. The results are predictable: Soaring costs, increasing regulation and restriction, diminishing efficiency and even general freedom; and crushing debt.

The S&P downgrade, small as it was (AA+ isn't a BAD rating), was a historic head-slap delivered to the leftist fanatics (in both parties) who have been exploding government and running up incredible debts, with their blinders-on determination never to change course, no matter how unsustainable that course or disastrous the demonstrated results. S&P simply pointed out the unsustainability - and the blinders-on determination resisting the necessary course change.

And the screaming from the left hasn't diminished since they did. Nor has the blinders-on determination to keep borrowing and spending, and blame everyone else except themselves - a fact I devoutly hope will be remembered by the people who pay the bills, when the next few elections roll around.

 

[Lagboltz]

See the part I put in parentheses.

The Founders didn't command states to tackle these issues. They simply forbade the Fed from doing it. And they left the option open for states to be as smart or as stupid as they wanted to be. And therein lies the hidden genius of the Founders' plan: They left the states (and cities etc.) to COMPETE WITH EACH OTHER.

People can move freely from state to state (or between cities) all they want... and so can businesses. Moving out of the country was a lot tougher in the Founders' day... and it isn't all that easy even today. If one state tries to run a bunch of unwise programs (see Romneycare, Oregon's attempt at universal HC, California's silly environmental laws etc.), people (and especially businesses) can move to another state... and take their taxes with them.

And a lot of them are doing that. States that are wise enough to leave most things to the lowest level of govt - or to the people, as the Constitution mentions - have the best chance of retaining the productive members of their tax base, and so can benefit by their freedom.

Unworkable ideologies don't last long when the people who pay the bills, are free to leave. That's why today's leftist fanatics are concentrating their efforts on the NATIONAL government, and even passing laws such as the "mandate" in Obamacare to force everyone to participate. You have to leave the country to avoid being robbed... and the leftists have messed up most other countries so badly that they are even worse than the U.S. is now.

There is a real financial burden for and people (and especially businesses) to move. Laws in States are much more volatile than Fed laws, and could easily cause moving to be a frequent exercise.

The United States was founded on the idea that people would be free to make their own decisions and sink or swim by the results, learning with each failure and getting better as time goes on. Today's leftist fanatics are diametrically opposed to that idea, and are trying to expand government to intrude into and direct more and more of our activites. The results are predictable: Soaring costs, increasing regulation and restriction, diminishing efficiency and even general freedom; and crushing debt.

Pennsylvania could perhaps allow burning coal with no restrictions and cause a smog filled climate like in China. That could easily affect nearby states who want clearer air.

Oil companies would love to do fraking and cheaply dump the residue into streams. That would be the prerogative of the state, but downstream states would suffer the consequences.

Some southern states may even allow racial discrimination to a greater extent. Poor blacks simply don't have the luxury of moving when they want.

Then the states may start gearing up their militia, (which they have a right to do under the constitution) and go to war with each other. Yes, it's far-fetched, but we both are thinking outside the box here.

The S&P downgrade, small as it was (AA+ isn't a BAD rating), was a historic head-slap delivered to the leftist fanatics (in both parties) who have been exploding government and running up incredible debts, with their blinders-on determination never to change course, no matter how unsustainable that course or disastrous the demonstrated results. S&P simply pointed out the unsustainability - and the blinders-on determination resisting the necessary course change.

And the screaming from the left hasn't diminished since they did. Nor has the blinders-on determination to keep borrowing and spending, and blame everyone else except themselves - a fact I devoutly hope will be remembered by the people who pay the bills, when the next few elections roll around.

I agree. The compromise was stupid but probably not for the reasons you give.