Democracy or Security? Egypt

[BigRob]

the writting is on the wall...take sides now or you just get lumped in as supporting the other. We made such a big deal about Democracy in the middle east...Fought wars for it...but its to hard to have the balls to say to a leader his time is up after 30 years and support democracy?

We have not fought any wars for the sole purpose of "Democracy." As for the writing being on the wall, I disagree. Mubarak might still be able to control this scenario, and we don't want to pick a side (nor should we) until it is clear that he cannot, at which point the protesters would still love to get American support.

We don't have to pick yet, so there is no reason to pick.

this is why people don't like us in the rest of the world...when push comes to shove...all our ideals get thrown aside if its in our interest overseas.

What it boils down to at the root is that people in the rest of the world "don't like us" because their interests clash with ours... nothing more.

 

[Neutral Evil]

Egypt is protesting...they want new government...some of those protesters want a Islamic one, and are headed by the Muslim Brotherhood..who in the past has been tied to terror attacks and assignations...Others more secular, and just want democracy and a end to years of dictatorship The Leaders have been good to the US, and very helpful on the war on terror and are viewed as key US allies.

Should we support Democracy and the overthrow of leadership even if it means we could end up with alot less help on security or even a nation hostile to the US?

Should we support our allies, even if it means saying no to Democracy as we know who could possibly win and that could be worse?

is our Long term security helped by pushing out these old rulers and helping democratic reform even though short term it could make things worse?

We must side with the Egyptians to usher in a new era of possibilities and order. Egypt is a fine country, the seat of an ancient civilization, a landmark in history. We cannot have backward muslim values thrive in this place. It only serves to weaken a fine nation.

As for having a more hostile nation is concerned, the strife we will endure in pacifying it will bolster our convictions, strengthen our beliefs and last but not least, bring us closer to the age of direct energy weapons.

 

[Apathy]

1)We must side with the Egyptians to usher in a new era of possibilities and order. Egypt is a fine country, the seat of an ancient civilization, a landmark in history. We cannot have backward muslim values thrive in this place. It only serves to weaken a fine nation.

As for having a more hostile nation is concerned, the strife we will endure in pacifying it will bolster our convictions, strengthen our beliefs and last but not least, bring us closer to the age of direct energy weapons.

So muslims are inferior?

 

[nobull]

So muslims are inferior?

I guess that would depend on who you ask..inferior isn't the word I would have used..

doug

 

[Stalin]

Muhammed Ali is a muslim.

Comrade Stalin

 

[Neutral Evil]

So muslims are inferior?

How they relegate the home and children to their women is an inferior practice. It is too easy a way to make men the dominant ones and women the subservient. The male in power is an outdated and unfair system of society.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

How they relegate the home and children to their women is an inferior practice. It is too easy a way to make men the dominant ones and women the subservient. The male in power is an outdated and unfair system of society.

that practice is not done by all Muslims..just like how there are some Christians who basically do the same as the Muslims you talk about...the woman has little say, does what the husband says, and is 2nd class to the husband...

 

[Neutral Evil]

that practice is not done by all Muslims..just like how there are some Christians who basically do the same as the Muslims you talk about...the woman has little say, does what the husband says, and is 2nd class to the husband...

Then we must find a way to persuade these christians to abolish the system.

 

[GenSeneca]

I was looking for the thread in which Pocket and I were discussing the eventual outcome of the "democratic" revolution in Egypt... He thought it would become some western style democracy, like Canada or Europe. I said it would devolve into an Islamic state with sharia law ruled by the Muslim Brotherhood. Keep in mind we had this discussion when things were just starting to unfold in Egypt, more than a year ago, when the Muslim Brotherhood was considered a minority party.

Although Pocket is currently on hiatus, I wanted to post an update on our discussion without making a new thread:

​

(CNSNews.com) - Vice President Joe Biden, speaking at a high school commencement ceremony in Virginia on Thursday, called the Arab Spring a “democratic movement”--on the same day that the Egyptian high court nullified the Islamist majority parliament and the Egyptian military assumed control of the legislature.​

The Muslim Brotherhood won a majority of seats in the parliament and the Islamist Salafists took the second largest number of seats. That means nearly 70% of the seats in parliament were held by Islamist parties who supported imposing Sharia Law on the entire country. This "democratic" outcome didn't sit well with the Egyptian military.

According to Egyptian state media, the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, which has held central power in Egypt since President Hosni Mubarak resigned in February 2011, has reportedly assumed legislative authority in place of parliament. - From link above​

​

Ironic that a military dictatorship had to step in to protect Egypt from "democracy".

 

[Cruella]

This is exactly what Mubarak warned us would happen. I don't think a true democracy is possible in Muslim countries. Islam is as much an authoritarian government system as it is a religion. Look what's been happening in Iraq. They pretty much have a religious cleansing going on. Christians and Shi'ites are being murdered right and left by the majority Sunnies. Turkey is going backwards. The same will happen in Egypt.

 

[dogtowner]

This is exactly what Mubarak warned us would happen. I don't think a true democracy is possible in Muslim countries. Islam is as much an authoritarian government system as it is a religion. Look what's been happening in Iraq. They pretty much have a religious cleansing going on. Christians and Shi'ites are being murdered right and left by the majority Sunnies. Turkey is going backwards. The same will happen in Egypt.

the nature of islam demands that a dictator rule with an iron fist. the generals know this and wish it to be them as its been for generations. in addition to the loss of power they understand that an islamic state only drags the country down and Egypt has little going for it (no oil) and just can't afford to get worse.

there was never a question in my mind that the generals would retain control.

 

[Cruella]

The Muslim B'Hood takeover in Egypt shows Arab Spring is radical Islamic nightmare.

by Congressman Allen West

"A year ago there were those of us who warned the Obama Administration of a Muslim Brotherhood takeover in Egypt. We were castigated as alarmists and loose cannons. Today our predictions have come to reality and the ominous specter reminding us of the Iranian revolution is evident. The Muslim Brotherhood claimed they would not run a presidential candidate. Clearly the Arab Spring is nothing more than a radical Islamic nightmare. Now we need to unequivocally reiterate our support to the Coptic Christians and Israel. What an incredible foreign policy faux pas by the second coming of President Jimmy Carter, the Obama Administration. I call upon President Barack Obama to cut off American foreign aid to Egypt, denounce the results of this election, repudiate the Muslim Brotherhood, and all radical Islamist political entities."

White House 'Congratulates' Morsi on Winning Egyptian Presidential Election

 

[steveox]

There goes the Jew vote for Obama. And for Democrats as well.

 

[Cruella]

Egyptian Protesters Climb Walls Of U.S. Embassy, American Flags Taken Down And Replaced With Black Al-Qaeda Flags

 

[Cruella]

Marines Guarding Embassy in Egypt Not Permitted to Carry Live Ammo

"While Marines are typically relied on to defend U.S. territory abroad, such as embassies, these reports indicate that the Obama administration was relying on Egypt’s new Muslim Brotherhood-backed government to ensure American security, a move observers are questioning as violence in Cairo continues to rage."