"Death Panel" measure survives in House health care bill

Little-Acorn

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Remember back when people began complaining about government running private health care agencies out of businesses by undercutting prices, and forcing companies who couldn't subsidize themselves with "free" tax money, to go bankrupt? And how this could eventually lead to the Govt being the only place you could get your health care... making the govt the only one in charge of deciding whether Granny should get expensive treatments that didn't have a 100% chance of prolonging her life?

Then came the news that this govt insurance would pay doctors for counselling session where they would give patients alternatives for end-of-life decisions.

Democrats screamed that these were not "death panels"... but in the Senate bill, they quietly took them out a week later.

Now, in the new 1,990-page House bill unveiled yesterday, they're back!

--------------------------------------------

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/10/29/called-death-panel-measure-survives-house-health/

So-Called 'Death Panel' Measure Survives in House Health Bill

October 29, 2009

WASHINGTON -- It's alive.

The Medicare end-of-life planning provision that 2008 Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin said was tantamount to "death panels" for seniors is staying in the latest Democratic health care bill unveiled Thursday.

The provision allows Medicare to pay for voluntary counseling to help beneficiaries deal with the complex and painful decisions families face when a loved one is approaching death.

For years, federal laws and policies have encouraged Americans to think ahead about end-of-life decisions, and make their wishes known in advance through living wills and similar legal documents. But when House Democrats proposed this summer to pay doctors for end-of-life counseling, it touched off a wave of suspicion and anger. Prominent Republicans singled it out as a glaring example of government overreach.

Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, at the time a lead negotiator on health care legislation, told constituents at a town hall meeting they had good reason to question the proposal.

"I don't have any problem with things like living wills, but they ought to be done within the family," he said. "We should not have a government program that determines you're going to pull the plug on grandma."

Thursday, the sponsor of the provision said the barrage of criticism may have actually helped.

"There is nothing more basic than giving someone the option of speaking with their doctor about how they want to be treated in the case of an emergency," said Rep. Earl Blumenauer, D-Ore. "I think the outrageous and vindictive attacks may have backfired to help raise awareness about this problem, which is why it's been kept in the bill."

The legislation would allow Medicare to pay for a counseling session with a doctor or clinical professional once every five years. The bill calls for such sessions to be "completely" voluntary, and prohibits the encouragement or promotion of suicide or assisted suicide.

The counseling provision is supported by doctors' groups and AARP, the seniors' lobby. It was not included in health care bills passed by two Senate committees.
 
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Clipped from the article: "There is nothing more basic than giving someone the option of speaking with their doctor about how they want to be treated in the case of an emergency," said Rep. Earl Blumenauer, D-Ore. "I think the outrageous and vindictive attacks may have backfired to help raise awareness about this problem, which is why it's been kept in the bill."

As with most things that 'YOU' are quite able to blow out of proportion and make that "monumental mountain out of a mole hill"...your hysteria and self inflicted stupidity regarding this issue is so telling about your 'IRRATIONAL FEARS & IMMATURE HYSTERIA' :p

GOOD GRIEF you really need to find an issue that has some weight/merit and a basis for concern. GROW THE HELL UP!!!
 
Okay, I guess I should clarify: you're going to get less healthcare paid for in the future than you're getting today. IF you could get rid of all the legal entanglements that are the biggest monetary drain on current healthcare programs, you'd just end up putting a bunch of lawyers out of work. And since they're overwhelmingly FOR "healhcare reform"... doesn't that seem a tad odd? Perhaps they're thinking that they can get more certain awards if there's a "single payer" system backed by the taxpayers' collective wallet? Or maybe they think that they can fleece doctors more easily and successfully if the laws are written more "liberally"? Wasn't that perfectly illustrated by how John Edwards made his fortune off of Cerebral Palsy? Did it ever occur to him to return all the wrongfully-gained money?
 
As with most things that 'YOU' are quite able to blow out of proportion and make that "monumental mountain out of a mole hill"...your hysteria and self inflicted stupidity regarding this issue is so telling about your 'IRRATIONAL FEARS & IMMATURE HYSTERIA' :p

GOOD GRIEF you really need to find an issue that has some weight/merit and a basis for concern. GROW THE HELL UP!!!

OFF YOUR MEDS again ?, USPCA, The "DEATH PANEL" is a vital tool in the Obama Health Care Control legislation. Seniors of course will be the first put to death but eventually all will become targets if OBAMA gets his way. The only difference between "OBAMA'S DEATH PANEL" and NAZI GERMANY'S "FINAL SOLUTION" is in the transportation cost. Under the "Obama Plan" seniors will pay their own way to the GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED HEALTH CARE OFFICE, in that office the poor Senior Citizen will be told his CARE is either greatly reduced or eliminated altogether. COST VS Worth, means SENIORS will be eliminated , some very quickly , some will die slowly, but at home. As brutal as the "FINAL SOLUTION" was in Germany , they did provide GOVERNMENT TRANSPORTAION to their "DEATH PANEL CAMPS" Personally , I think ones own DEATH carries both "some weight" ands "some merit " . Even in Obama's America! What say YOU??
 
Yes, they put back in death panels even though most people were against death panels.

Older people oppose them and the young ones might not care as much, since they figure it doesn't affect them, which is somewhat true.

It's the young people and their votes, Obama counts on!
 
Remember back when people began complaining about government running private health care agencies out of businesses by undercutting prices, and forcing companies who couldn't subsidize themselves with "free" tax money, to go bankrupt? And how this could eventually lead to the Govt being the only place you could get your health care... making the govt the only one in charge of deciding whether Granny should get expensive treatments that didn't have a 100% chance of prolonging her life?

Then came the news that this govt insurance would pay doctors for counselling session where they would give patients alternatives for end-of-life decisions.

Democrats screamed that these were not "death panels"... but in the Senate bill, they quietly took them out a week later.

Now, in the new 1,990-page House bill unveiled yesterday, they're back!

--------------------------------------------

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/10/29/called-death-panel-measure-survives-house-health/

So-Called 'Death Panel' Measure Survives in House Health Bill

October 29, 2009

WASHINGTON -- It's alive.

The Medicare end-of-life planning provision that 2008 Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin said was tantamount to "death panels" for seniors is staying in the latest Democratic health care bill unveiled Thursday.

The provision allows Medicare to pay for voluntary counseling to help beneficiaries deal with the complex and painful decisions families face when a loved one is approaching death.

For years, federal laws and policies have encouraged Americans to think ahead about end-of-life decisions, and make their wishes known in advance through living wills and similar legal documents. But when House Democrats proposed this summer to pay doctors for end-of-life counseling, it touched off a wave of suspicion and anger. Prominent Republicans singled it out as a glaring example of government overreach.

Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, at the time a lead negotiator on health care legislation, told constituents at a town hall meeting they had good reason to question the proposal.

"I don't have any problem with things like living wills, but they ought to be done within the family," he said. "We should not have a government program that determines you're going to pull the plug on grandma."

Thursday, the sponsor of the provision said the barrage of criticism may have actually helped.

"There is nothing more basic than giving someone the option of speaking with their doctor about how they want to be treated in the case of an emergency," said Rep. Earl Blumenauer, D-Ore. "I think the outrageous and vindictive attacks may have backfired to help raise awareness about this problem, which is why it's been kept in the bill."

The legislation would allow Medicare to pay for a counseling session with a doctor or clinical professional once every five years. The bill calls for such sessions to be "completely" voluntary, and prohibits the encouragement or promotion of suicide or assisted suicide.

The counseling provision is supported by doctors' groups and AARP, the seniors' lobby. It was not included in health care bills passed by two Senate committees.

Seriously...:rolleyes: do you really think people are so stupid as to not know the difference between giving very good and standard practice things that are already done now like advice on estate planning and living wills and something the you want to pathetically SPOOK UP by calling that death panels.

I mean I know it's Halloween and all but you can't really scare people with dumb stuff like this anymore.


 
OFF YOUR MEDS again ?, USPCA, The "DEATH PANEL" is a vital tool in the Obama Health Care Control legislation. Seniors of course will be the first put to death but eventually all will become targets if OBAMA gets his way. The only difference between "OBAMA'S DEATH PANEL" and NAZI GERMANY'S "FINAL SOLUTION" is in the transportation cost. Under the "Obama Plan" seniors will pay their own way to the GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED HEALTH CARE OFFICE, in that office the poor Senior Citizen will be told his CARE is either greatly reduced or eliminated altogether. COST VS Worth, means SENIORS will be eliminated , some very quickly , some will die slowly, but at home. As brutal as the "FINAL SOLUTION" was in Germany , they did provide GOVERNMENT TRANSPORTAION to their "DEATH PANEL CAMPS" Personally , I think ones own DEATH carries both "some weight" ands "some merit " . Even in Obama's America! What say YOU??

Oh...that 'SCREECHING MONKEY SOUND' that you project...UUUUGGGGGHHH

**WARNING** MENTAL MALFUNCTION ZERO BRAIN ACTIVITY_____FLAT LINE...PLEASE, PULL THE PLUG ;)
 
Seriously...:rolleyes: do you really think people are so stupid as to not know the difference between giving very good and standard practice things that are already done now like advice on estate planning and living wills and something the you want to pathetically SPOOK UP by calling that death panels.


Obviously, he does believe exactly that, and equally obviously, he's right in a lot of instances.
 
Okay, I guess I should clarify: you're going to get less healthcare paid for in the future than you're getting today. IF you could get rid of all the legal entanglements that are the biggest monetary drain on current healthcare programs, you'd just end up putting a bunch of lawyers out of work. And since they're overwhelmingly FOR "healhcare reform"... doesn't that seem a tad odd? Perhaps they're thinking that they can get more certain awards if there's a "single payer" system backed by the taxpayers' collective wallet? Or maybe they think that they can fleece doctors more easily and successfully if the laws are written more "liberally"? Wasn't that perfectly illustrated by how John Edwards made his fortune off of Cerebral Palsy? Did it ever occur to him to return all the wrongfully-gained money?

yes lets get rid of all the legal stuff....and if someone screws up, well so be it, sorry they are dead becuse we did not do our jobs....o well. Also less health care is hard for the millions who have no health care...
 
Most Americans could not afford a major medical expense, even with health insurance - they will be bankrupt; and those unfortunate to need long-term medical treatment will end up on the street. If universal healthcare is not a right, then it certainly should be. What else is the purpose of government but to provide for such things? The greatest nation in the world should be able to afford the very best healthcare for all of its citizens; and the fact that millions of Americans have no health insurance is nothing less than a national disgrace.
 
Nice post and puts it in respective RS.

_________________________________
I mean I know it's Halloween and all but you can't really scare people with dumb stuff like this anymore. TG

As much as I dislike saying it, you can scare them, however they 'DO SO' exaggerate the issue.

In truth we have had 'advance directives' for as long as I can remember.
I have worked with the elderly (and loved them all)
However 'they' are not at all uneducated on the dying issue. They probably understand it better than their families and those that say 'choose life, no matter if you know if you are alive or not'

The elderly are aware of the circle of life very much.
I did not know of any, that wanted to be kept alive at all costs. They do not want to be kept alive with tubes that provide nutrition. They do not want others to have to care for their every need. If they know nothing, i.e.. stroke or some other brain malfunction and not allowed to die.
In this era, we can keep almost anyone alive even if they don't know they exist.
They don't want the indignity of others having to do everything for them as they lay in a bed for years and years.

'Death Panels'? Just how 'low-life' can some people go?
Never should this counseling need be paid for by any health care.
This is merely a step we all should do in this 'circle of life'

What really has 'bothered' me is many have had their wishes made known and even notarized and witnessed. However years ago a family member could 'over-rule' what their Mother or Father had already taken care of.
To me this is much scarier than what some call 'death panels'
I certainly do not want anyone over-ruling my right to die when my time comes.
jbohsix
 
Panels that could have been death panels were in there before. And the same people who put the last one in wrote this bill.

But based on what you presented here I don't see the death panels this time.

I do see that health care decisions should be made by the patient and his family with the doctor as a confidential adviser. I do see that that relationship is threatened.
 
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The arguments being made against the proposed healthcare legislation are ridiculous. “Death panels” - have you ever heard such nonsense? What is more unbelievable is the number of gullible people that have bought this bunk. It is a testament to the triumph of stupidity in American democracy. No doubt healthcare reform will fail; like our failed financial system, profit-driven medical services bears the seed of its own demise. Hospitals will be priced out of business, doctors will be bankrupt and patients will be abandoned. It is already happening. But not to worry, it’s “too big to fail.” After another round of government bailouts to make good the margin cash-calls of the Wall Street speculators and pay big bonuses to insurance executives for running healthcare aground, the same people that protested against reform will scratch their heads and wonder whatever was wrong with “socialized medicine.”
 
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