Conservatives... just think about it... thanks

nobull

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Does it matter that the Founders may not have been Christians? Is it of any importance that many of them may have been Deists? The answer to both questions is a resounding no. Their religious affiliations or lack thereof have no real bearing on the fact that they established a government, based upon a core document that protects the state from religion and religion from the state. They recognized the need for principle and virtue. They just didn’t care which form it came in – individualized or organized. That is the only matter of importance. At the end of the day, we as Americans are free to practice religion as we may so choose, or to not practice or even recognize it at all – without explanation.

My Republican Party could stand to learn a great deal from this notion. Emphasizing religion and religiously motivated policies over sound conservative principles is surely misguided and will ultimately lead to the Party continuing to be viewed in an unfavorable light. Republicans should be proud of their faith. Our Constitution affords us that protection, but we should be cautious that our faith doesn’t allow us to lose sight of the principles of that document which gives us such freedoms. Masking every policy argument in religious undertones does little to influence new supporters. It merely pushes away those who look to reason or to science as their guiding authorities. It is not a call to fold to the wishes of “academics” or scientists who espouse that religious “right-wingers” are uneducated or naïve. It is simply a call to return to conservative values. From a purely practical standpoint, consistency in Constitutional interpretation regarding the 1st Amendment will allow conservatives to slowly break free from many of the problems that have traditionally plagued us. How many Republicans have been mortified at the level of coverage that an elected GOP official receives when he/she falls from the public’s good graces; and by how Democrats aren’t held to the same standard of scrutiny? This is merely a byproduct of governing from a falsely perceived high moral ground. Republicans are no more or less religious than Democrats on the aggregate, but they supplant religious values into the political process when they don’t have to.We intertwine personal religious beliefs with political policy. So when they do fall from grace, they are held to a higher standard and ridiculed... Realizing that individual personal religious beliefs can be distinct from political action will free us from these chains.

regards
doug
 
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Re: Conservatives..just think about it..thanks

Does it matter that the Founders may not have been Christians? Is it of any importance that many of them may have been Deists? The answer to both questions is a resounding no. Their religious affiliations or lack thereof have no real bearing on the fact that they established a government, based upon a core document that protects the state from religion and religion from the state. They recognized the need for principle and virtue. They just didn’t care which form it came in – individualized or organized. That is the only matter of importance. At the end of the day, we as Americans are free to practice religion as we may so choose, or to not practice or even recognize it at all – without explanation.

My Republican Party could stand to learn a great deal from this notion. Emphasizing religion and religiously motivated policies over sound conservative principles is surely misguided and will ultimately lead to the Party continuing to be viewed in an unfavorable light. Republicans should be proud of their faith. Our Constitution affords us that protection, but we should be cautious that our faith doesn’t allow us to lose sight of the principles of that document which gives us such freedoms. Masking every policy argument in religious undertones does little to influence new supporters. It merely pushes away those who look to reason or to science as their guiding authorities. It is not a call to fold to the wishes of “academics” or scientists who espouse that religious “right-wingers” are uneducated or naïve. It is simply a call to return to conservative values. From a purely practical standpoint, consistency in Constitutional interpretation regarding the 1st Amendment will allow conservatives to slowly break free from many of the problems that have traditionally plagued us. How many Republicans have been mortified at the level of coverage that an elected GOP official receives when he/she falls from the public’s good graces; and by how Democrats aren’t held to the same standard of scrutiny? This is merely a byproduct of governing from a falsely perceived high moral ground. Republicans are no more or less religious than Democrats on the aggregate, but they supplant religious values into the political process when they don’t have to.We intertwine personal religious beliefs with political policy. So when they do fall from grace, they are held to a higher standard and ridiculed... Realizing that individual personal religious beliefs can be distinct from political action will free us from these chains.

regards
doug

Finally, something coming from a Republican that I can agree with!
Nice to read you. Now, can you please inform the rest of the GOP?
 
Re: Conservatives..just think about it..thanks

Does it matter that the Founders may not have been Christians? Is it of any importance that many of them may have been Deists? The answer to both questions is a resounding no. Their religious affiliations or lack thereof have no real bearing on the fact that they established a government, based upon a core document that protects the state from religion and religion from the state. They recognized the need for principle and virtue. They just didn’t care which form it came in – individualized or organized. That is the only matter of importance. At the end of the day, we as Americans are free to practice religion as we may so choose, or to not practice or even recognize it at all – without explanation.

My Republican Party could stand to learn a great deal from this notion. Emphasizing religion and religiously motivated policies over sound conservative principles is surely misguided and will ultimately lead to the Party continuing to be viewed in an unfavorable light. Republicans should be proud of their faith. Our Constitution affords us that protection, but we should be cautious that our faith doesn’t allow us to lose sight of the principles of that document which gives us such freedoms. Masking every policy argument in religious undertones does little to influence new supporters. It merely pushes away those who look to reason or to science as their guiding authorities. It is not a call to fold to the wishes of “academics” or scientists who espouse that religious “right-wingers” are uneducated or naïve. It is simply a call to return to conservative values. From a purely practical standpoint, consistency in Constitutional interpretation regarding the 1st Amendment will allow conservatives to slowly break free from many of the problems that have traditionally plagued us. How many Republicans have been mortified at the level of coverage that an elected GOP official receives when he/she falls from the public’s good graces; and by how Democrats aren’t held to the same standard of scrutiny? This is merely a byproduct of governing from a falsely perceived high moral ground. Republicans are no more or less religious than Democrats on the aggregate, but they supplant religious values into the political process when they don’t have to.We intertwine personal religious beliefs with political policy. So when they do fall from grace, they are held to a higher standard and ridiculed... Realizing that individual personal religious beliefs can be distinct from political action will free us from these chains.

regards
doug

Sorry Doug, but this post is meaningless. You make it sound like the R party is full of fundamentalist Christians. There is no basis for you comments in reality.

Could you please identify those Rs who consistently use religion to promote their policies? I am unaware of any currently in Congress or running for president who do this.

Secondly, there has been much written about our Founders being deists in the past few decades. But, I suspect most of it is dribble. Many claim Washington was a deist. This of course, is a complete fabrication. I am currently reading this
51VPFCRKVZL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

and the author exhaustive proves that George was NOT a deist. Maybe some of the other Founders were, but we must admit the Left has tried to co opt this issue and Left always lies.
 
Re: Conservatives..just think about it..thanks

Sorry Doug, but this post is meaningless. You make it sound like the R party is full of fundamentalist Christians. There is no basis for you comments in reality.

Could you please identify those Rs who consistently use religion to promote their policies? I am unaware of any currently in Congress or running for president who do this.

Secondly, there has been much written about our Founders being deists in the past few decades. But, I suspect most of it is dribble. Many claim Washington was a deist. This of course, is a complete fabrication. I am currently reading this
51VPFCRKVZL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

and the author exhaustive proves that George was NOT a deist. Maybe some of the other Founders were, but we must admit the Left has tried to co opt this issue and Left always lies.

Gipper..even I do it..don't get me wrong..I believe in God and I am a firm believer in capitalism, but I don't think God believes in Capitalisim..

best regards
dou
 
Re: Conservatives..just think about it..thanks

Gipper..even I do it..don't get me wrong..I believe in God and I am a firm believer in capitalism, but I don't think God believes in Capitalisim..

best regards
dou

That is not an answer to my question.

You do it, so I am to believe R politicians do it?

Can you please list the Rs who base their policies on religion?
 
Re: Conservatives..just think about it..thanks

Finally, something coming from a Republican that I can agree with!
Nice to read you. Now, can you please inform the rest of the GOP?


openmind..That being said...When I was growing up during the late 1960′s and early 1970′s it was required that each and every student in my school district recite this every morning with their hand over their heart. It was not an individual requirement; it was group thing preceded by a moment of silence. It has since changed and it is not permitted any longer because of certain lawsuits filed by the hypocritical liberals and the ACLU. As you know , this pledge is very simple and merely states the love and patriotism that most Americans have for their country.

However, those watching this US Open on NBC and the Golf Channel last weekend were greeted with a newer version, NBC has altered the Pledge of Allegiance by editing out the words, “Under God.” Other than a short clip on Fox News the other morning, I have heard nothing about NBC’s actions at all from the mainstream liberal leaning media since then. Of course, this is more evidence that Ben Shapiro was correct in the assertions made in his recently published book, Primetime Propaganda. To put it mildly, I am more than a little upset at this. In fact, I cannot understand why this isn’t making news in the same way that Anthony Weiner or Arnold Schwarzenegger did in the past few weeks. In fact, I can truthfully say that this is way more important to the country on the whole than whether Casey Anthony killed her daughter.

By doing this last Sunday, NBC has consciously chosen to censor a pledge that has been in existence for decades; a pledge to a flag that men and women in the armed forces die defending each and every day. And, yet there are no reports and very few articles on the web taking a stance against NBC or its actions.

Other than the lack of coverage in the main stream media for NBC’s action, I also question NBC’s motives in making this editorial choice. Have they decided to push a secular agenda? Is this the same secular agenda that the far left is tryin to pursue for the country? Has NBC now decided that the United States is no longer a Christian or God fearing nation? And, if they have, are they willing to suffer the consequences for this new political agenda?

You se it's not just us Christians that seem to always bring God into the mix, maybe we just can't stand by and let these kinds of things stand...

Now, don’t get me wrong. NBC can take any position it wants on any issue. This is what free speech is all about and one of the things this column has been all about from its inception. But, if NBC is going to take these sort of positions, it should be willing and able to suffer the consequences therefrom. It should be willing to suffer the outrage from the general public for their position. And, from the people watching the US Open when it happened, NBC did indeed suffer. In fact, their switchboard lit up so much it were forced to issue an apology. But, that is not enough in my opinion. NBC should be made to state that this is not the policy of the network; that the person who was responsible for airing this has been or will be fired and that this type of action will not be tolerated in the future.

In closing, There is a video by Red Skelton that has been all over the web recently. It truly explains the significance and meaning of the pledge. It may be a little dated, but it really says it all.

doug
 
Re: Conservatives..just think about it..thanks

openmind..That being said...When I was growing up during the late 1960′s and early 1970′s it was required that each and every student in my school district recite this every morning with their hand over their heart. It was not an individual requirement; it was group thing preceded by a moment of silence. It has since changed and it is not permitted any longer because of certain lawsuits filed by the hypocritical liberals and the ACLU. As you know , this pledge is very simple and merely states the love and patriotism that most Americans have for their country.

However, those watching this US Open on NBC and the Golf Channel last weekend were greeted with a newer version, NBC has altered the Pledge of Allegiance by editing out the words, “Under God.” Other than a short clip on Fox News the other morning, I have heard nothing about NBC’s actions at all from the mainstream liberal leaning media since then. Of course, this is more evidence that Ben Shapiro was correct in the assertions made in his recently published book, Primetime Propaganda. To put it mildly, I am more than a little upset at this. In fact, I cannot understand why this isn’t making news in the same way that Anthony Weiner or Arnold Schwarzenegger did in the past few weeks. In fact, I can truthfully say that this is way more important to the country on the whole than whether Casey Anthony killed her daughter.

By doing this last Sunday, NBC has consciously chosen to censor a pledge that has been in existence for decades; a pledge to a flag that men and women in the armed forces die defending each and every day. And, yet there are no reports and very few articles on the web taking a stance against NBC or its actions.

Other than the lack of coverage in the main stream media for NBC’s action, I also question NBC’s motives in making this editorial choice. Have they decided to push a secular agenda? Is this the same secular agenda that the far left is tryin to pursue for the country? Has NBC now decided that the United States is no longer a Christian or God fearing nation? And, if they have, are they willing to suffer the consequences for this new political agenda?

You se it's not just us Christians that seem to always bring God into the mix, maybe we just can't stand by and let these kinds of things stand...

Now, don’t get me wrong. NBC can take any position it wants on any issue. This is what free speech is all about and one of the things this column has been all about from its inception. But, if NBC is going to take these sort of positions, it should be willing and able to suffer the consequences therefrom. It should be willing to suffer the outrage from the general public for their position. And, from the people watching the US Open when it happened, NBC did indeed suffer. In fact, their switchboard lit up so much it were forced to issue an apology. But, that is not enough in my opinion. NBC should be made to state that this is not the policy of the network; that the person who was responsible for airing this has been or will be fired and that this type of action will not be tolerated in the future.

In closing, There is a video by Red Skelton that has been all over the web recently. It truly explains the significance and meaning of the pledge. It may be a little dated, but it really says it all.

doug


I understand what you are saying. I personally believe in God, but not necessarely in the "CHRISTIAN" image of God.
I believe that when our forefather gave us freedom of religion with our reference to "God," they were visionary, and they were spiritual people, with a broad mind. I do not believe that, even IF most were "Christians" they limited their reference to God to a "Christian God."

Yet, over the centuries, this is what the understanding of the average person became: Believing in God, and making a reference to God in the pledge of allegiance met "the Christian image of God."

Today, with the world opening, with more people looking at God in a broader view. Not necessarely pushing the "Christian God" under the incoming train, but looking at him as a cultural interpretation of God, the almighty. The ONE God that is not limited by culture, or time, or any "mankind" limitations.

So, maybe the "rejection" of God in the pledge of allegiance may be more related to the "narrow" image of God, rather than God him/her/itself.

I know I'm going to be beaten up to a pulp for this. But it is my opinion, and I enjoy my right to express it.
 
Republicans are no more or less religious than Democrats on the aggregate, but they supplant religious values into the political process when they don’t have to.

picture.php


"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca
 
Re: Conservatives..just think about it..thanks

"...a pledge to a flag that men and women in the armed forces die defending each and every day..."
When I was inducted (enlisted, not drafted), in the military, I was required to pledge to: "Support and defend the constitution against all enemies, both foreign and domestic..." At no time was required, or did I ever pledge allegiance to a flag. Unless things have changed, our men and women in the armed forces are dieing defending the constituion...not the "flag".

And you do know of course that Jehovah Witnesses (a Christian religion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses), will not recite or participate in the oath due to their beliefs.

Reciting the oath is a meaningless gesture whose major impact is to identify those who choose not to recite it for some reason...just like the Nazi oath of allegiance.

You people that are so taken with "oaths" should take a look at this:
http://www.*************/la-county-...lways-place-mission-first-not-us-constitution

Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer!
 
Does it matter that the Founders may not have been Christians? Is it of any importance that many of them may have been Deists? The answer to both questions is a resounding no. Their religious affiliations or lack thereof have no real bearing on the fact that they established a government, based upon a core document that protects the state from religion and religion from the state. They recognized the need for principle and virtue. They just didn’t care which form it came in – individualized or organized. That is the only matter of importance. At the end of the day, we as Americans are free to practice religion as we may so choose, or to not practice or even recognize it at all – without explanation.

My Republican Party could stand to learn a great deal from this notion. Emphasizing religion and religiously motivated policies over sound conservative principles is surely misguided and will ultimately lead to the Party continuing to be viewed in an unfavorable light. Republicans should be proud of their faith. Our Constitution affords us that protection, but we should be cautious that our faith doesn’t allow us to lose sight of the principles of that document which gives us such freedoms. Masking every policy argument in religious undertones does little to influence new supporters. It merely pushes away those who look to reason or to science as their guiding authorities. It is not a call to fold to the wishes of “academics” or scientists who espouse that religious “right-wingers” are uneducated or naïve. It is simply a call to return to conservative values. From a purely practical standpoint, consistency in Constitutional interpretation regarding the 1st Amendment will allow conservatives to slowly break free from many of the problems that have traditionally plagued us. How many Republicans have been mortified at the level of coverage that an elected GOP official receives when he/she falls from the public’s good graces; and by how Democrats aren’t held to the same standard of scrutiny? This is merely a byproduct of governing from a falsely perceived high moral ground. Republicans are no more or less religious than Democrats on the aggregate, but they supplant religious values into the political process when they don’t have to.We intertwine personal religious beliefs with political policy. So when they do fall from grace, they are held to a higher standard and ridiculed... Realizing that individual personal religious beliefs can be distinct from political action will free us from these chains.

regards
doug

Speaking personally, I cannot imagine what "sound conservative principles" would look like divorced from moral truths.

If one forsakes the Christian (and thus natural law) basis for all morality, one has no business asserting anything like rights or justice.
 
Does it matter that the Founders may not have been Christians? Is it of any importance that many of them may have been Deists? The answer to both questions is a resounding no. Their religious affiliations or lack thereof have no real bearing on the fact that they established a government, based upon a core document that protects the state from religion and religion from the state. They recognized the need for principle and virtue. They just didn’t care which form it came in – individualized or organized. That is the only matter of importance. At the end of the day, we as Americans are free to practice religion as we may so choose, or to not practice or even recognize it at all – without explanation.

My Republican Party could stand to learn a great deal from this notion. Emphasizing religion and religiously motivated policies over sound conservative principles is surely misguided and will ultimately lead to the Party continuing to be viewed in an unfavorable light. Republicans should be proud of their faith. Our Constitution affords us that protection, but we should be cautious that our faith doesn’t allow us to lose sight of the principles of that document which gives us such freedoms. Masking every policy argument in religious undertones does little to influence new supporters. It merely pushes away those who look to reason or to science as their guiding authorities. It is not a call to fold to the wishes of “academics” or scientists who espouse that religious “right-wingers” are uneducated or naïve. It is simply a call to return to conservative values. From a purely practical standpoint, consistency in Constitutional interpretation regarding the 1st Amendment will allow conservatives to slowly break free from many of the problems that have traditionally plagued us. How many Republicans have been mortified at the level of coverage that an elected GOP official receives when he/she falls from the public’s good graces; and by how Democrats aren’t held to the same standard of scrutiny? This is merely a byproduct of governing from a falsely perceived high moral ground. Republicans are no more or less religious than Democrats on the aggregate, but they supplant religious values into the political process when they don’t have to.We intertwine personal religious beliefs with political policy. So when they do fall from grace, they are held to a higher standard and ridiculed... Realizing that individual personal religious beliefs can be distinct from political action will free us from these chains.

regards
doug

This is a very odd post to make in the current day US, where leftwingers have largely succeeded in their project to erase religion from public life. Religion has been pushed back almost to only inside houses of worship - about its status within the old soviet union, and leftwingers have even succeeded in getting a nation of sheep to replace "Merry Christmas" with "happy holiday".

Your post is about like arguing against the pernicious influences of democracy in 1941 nazi germany.

Incidentally, I'm an agnostic.
 
This from Friday's WSJ...

What Silent Cal Said About the Fourth of July
The late president believed American freedom had religious roots.

Coolidge's concluding remarks especially deserve our attention: "We live in an age of science and of abounding accumulation of material things. These did not create our Declaration. Our Declaration created them. The things of the spirit come first. . . . If we are to maintain the great heritage which has been bequeathed to us, we must be like-minded as the fathers who created it. We must not sink into a pagan materialism. We must cultivate the reverence which they had for the things which are holy. We must follow the spiritual and moral leadership which they showed. We must keep replenished, that they may glow with a more compelling flame, the altar fires before which they worshipped."

Coolidge was no religious fanatic. He appreciated our constitutional strictures against religious establishment and religious tests for office, limitations crucial to religious freedom and toleration, also principles unique to the American founding. But he understood that free institutions and economic prosperity rest on cultural grounds, which in turn rest on religious foundations.

Like Tocqueville, who attributed America's strength to its unique fusion of the spirit of liberty and the spirit of religion, Coolidge is rightly concerned about what will happen to the sturdy tree of liberty should its cultural roots decay. It is a question worth some attention as we eat our barbecue and watch the fireworks.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304584004576417790180549836.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

I do not believe America would have ever existed if our Founders were not Christians and did not use their faith to guide them. I also agree with Coolidge in that America can NOT long endure with God removed from the public square and our culture.

The Left has worked tirelessly to remove God from government and culture. While doing this, they have dumbed down many in their indoctrination centers (p-schools). This will ultimately destroy America if left unattended.

Sadly, thinks to liberalism, the Tree of Liberty is slowly dying.
 
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