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Capital Punishment

Discussion in 'House of Debates' started by Synical, Nov 10, 2009.

  1. Synical

    Synical New Member

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    Right or wrong?
    Revenge or just Justice?

    When you think from a logical perspective It would seem like the correct decision for the most socially unacceptable of crimes however when you do the research it suprisingly costs more to kill a criminal opposed to imprisoning a criminal for life, in saying this however we're clearly doing it wrong and I bet what's making it cost so much is are so called "morals" that become completely warped in this situation.

    From a moral perspective what gets me is that we are a self-proclaimed civilized society with a set of sound morals however how can we claim that when we are sending people to their death? Aren't we commiting the exact crime that we would send criminals to their death for and wouldn't that not only conflict our so called morals but make us hypocrites of the highest level?

    There is no doubt that from a civilized and morally sound perspective the right thing to do would be to remove that person from society and imprison them for life, ordering their murder frankly out of revenge isn't civilized or justice for that matter, logically it would be the right thing to do FOR NOW to imprison the criminal for life simply because it costs less so I ask the question, why do you support capital punishment?
     
  2. Synical

    Synical New Member

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    No one any opinions on the matter?
     
  3. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    I am pro life, even the life of a person who did horrible things.

    I think prison is a better solution. Even for a guy who raped and beat and killed a child.
    Life with NO possible chance of parol.

    The only case I know of where the Death Penalty was probably the right thing was Ted Bundy, and not because his crimes were worse than others but because he escaped twice and killed more girls. he apparently was smarter than the system so for everyones sake he is one who pretty much had to die or at least be chained to his cell till he died of natural causes. But there would be groups protesting if you chained him up so in his case it was a good idea.
     
  4. ASPCA4EVER

    ASPCA4EVER New Member

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    Seems the logical reasoning behind those mass volumes of law books in each and every law office, the basis for our judicial system, the reason we have an elevated penal system, and the last but not least reason...some humans just can't behave within the confines of civil society and upon their own volition they step out and over the guidelines/rule/law and become a heinous predator who can't be retrained to be socially safe...ergo...end that life and put it out of it's own misery!
     
  5. Pidgey

    Pidgey Well-Known Member

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    Revenge, Justice (arguably the same thing) AND... a lesson to others what behavior will NOT be tolerated. The only reason it costs so much here to get it done is that our political leaders, virtually lawyers all, saw fit to write enough loopholes in legislation to crawl out of in case THEY ever get caught.

    Don't, for even the briefest second, let yourself think that I'm only kidding.
     
  6. dahermit

    dahermit New Member

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    I am in favor of capital punishment (hanging as the mandatory standard), but before I would advocate for it, there would have to be major changes in the Judaical system starting with police "questioning" of suspects. It is evident that there are major problems with the existing system inasmuch as it has been reported that 25% of those freed from death row by DNA evidence had confessed to the crime after hours of police questioning.

    In one case, the police had gotten six different suspects to confess to a murder-rape, when only one sample of male DNA was found on the victims body. Each suspect had confessed to being the only perpetrator. None of the suspects DNA had been the one found. Furthermore, the police insisted that it must have been a gang-rape although they could not provide any evidence of that fact while being interviewed on camera, except that their "instincts" as police told them so.

    If one follows such cases, it is evident the procedures have to change before we can assume those convicted of capital crimes actually guilty of the crime.
     
  7. dahermit

    dahermit New Member

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    I absolutely agree. And, we, our loved ones, and others in society would be much safer if it was done.
     
  8. dahermit

    dahermit New Member

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    Some human predators continue to be predators while in prison. On other, younger, weaker inmates. And upon guards. I personally knew Jack Budd a guard at Jackson, MI prison. My son-in-law is a guard at the same prison, as is my step daughter. Life in prison does not necessarily mean the end of predators attacking members of society.
    If you think so, you should research the topic of prison life.
     
  9. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Oh I agree that many of them continue to be predators after in prison. I think a person instead of being executed should be isolated for the rest of their lives.

    I also think prisons need a heck of a lot of reforming. Oregon has 3 or 4 prisons in Salem alone then more in Portland, Pendleton, Umatilla, Snake River and others.

    People who do non violent crimes should not be in the same prison as people who beat and killed others. Right now I know someone who got 13 years for stealing cars. No drugs, no violence, no person to person anything, no priors. Just a bad judge and some bad luck. He does time with one guy who got 8 years for eating a body, another who got 10 years for beating a man to death with a base ball bat and oddly enough a guy who got 10 years for stealing womens underpants out of laundry mats exc. They at first thought he killed a girl named Brooke Willburger but eventually they found the real killer but this guy got a heavy sentence for the underpants because they thought he did more but could not prove it. There are child molesters, killers and every other creepy person you can think of there and a number of very young 18 year old brats who did something stupid but certianly not violent.

    The prison in Umatilla is a good model IMO, no unit has more than 80 people and gang violence is snuffed out just about as fast as it can start, where gang violence is rampid in the other prisons in Salem and Penelton.

    We could at least try putting people in prison based on the crime rather than location or time given and we could at least try to put people who would otherwise be exectued in solitary. If it doesnt work we could come up with new ideas.

    As much as I hate the death penalty I would rather spend time fighting for inocent life that is snuffed out than those who raped and murdered babies exc. But just on a personal level I dont like it, but I am not angry or disgusted with those who feel otherwise.
     
  10. dahermit

    dahermit New Member

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    According to psychiatrists, persons keep in solitary confinement become psychotic in a short time. The ACLU would jump in with the "...cruel and unusual...", argument. In other words, it ain't going to happen.
     
  11. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    I hate the aclu

    I would rather see someone in solitary than dead.

    but I know you are right
     
  12. samsara15

    samsara15 Member

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    Why do you hate the ACLU? Would you rather let the government have a free hand to abuse what should be basic human rights?
     
  13. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    No issue with capital punishment.
    I DO have an issue with the criminal justice system.
    The constitution calls for a speedy trial by a jury of peers but this is not happening. For this reason it becomes expensive. There is no reason to take ten years or more from arrest to lights out. One year is far more than necessary for the trial and any appeals.
    As for no parole, this is never more than the stroke of a pen from vanishing.
    When people see justice swift and sure then the deterrent occurs.
    It's time to stop lawyers from running up the bill.
    As to moral, what would Jesus do ?
    Nothing. The two thieves crucified with him got crucified. He couldn't save himself but he could have for them.
    Step back from a purely emotional response and think objectively.
     
    Johnny Tremain likes this.
  14. Johnny Tremain

    Johnny Tremain Well-Known Member

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    I think she does not want a permanent, hyper-left wing subversive group of elitists--like the corrupt ALCU--to take over the abuse of the citizenry on an eternal basis. The history of the ACLU is reprehensible.
     
  15. Jason76

    Jason76 Active Member

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    I don't think capital punishment solves any problem. It just ends a human life. Of course, in the old days, the punishment wasn't done for justice anyway, but only to serve as a deterrent. In fact, it was made brutal with things like crucifixtion or a hangman's rope. Who is going to steal something in ancient Rome and risk crucifixtion?
     
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