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Bin Laden raid 'not assassination'

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by Hobo1, May 12, 2011.

  1. Hobo1

    Hobo1 Active Member

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    This guy Holder sounds a little nervous about this issue:

    LONDON — The US commando raid that killed Osama bin Laden was "not an assassination", US Attorney General Eric Holder said Thursday after the Al-Qaeda leader's sons denounced the operation.

    Holder told the BBC the raid on bin Laden's hideout in Pakistan on May 2 was a "kill or capture mission" and that his surrender would have been accepted if offered, but that the safety of US Navy commandos was paramount.

    "What happened to bin Laden was not an assassination," Holder said.

    "I think the action that we took against him can be seen as an act of national self-defence. :eek:You have to remember it is lawful to target an enemy commander," he said.:D

    The top US legal official said there was no indication that bin Laden was going to surrender and it was believed he could be wearing a suicide vest.

    "It was a kill or capture mission. If there was a possibility of a feasible surrender that would have occurred, but their protection, that is the protection of the force that went into the compound, was uppermost in their minds," said Holder.:rolleyes:

    "This is a man who swore he would never be taken alive. There were some indications that perhaps he wore a suicide vest, there's indications that perhaps there were weapons in the room."
    [​IMG]This was a first class operation from the start almost to the end. The legal and moral thing to do was to capture bin Laden, interrogate, and give him to Saudi Arabia (where he is a citizen) and let the Saudi's put him on trial and kill him.
     
  2. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    I would have accepted it to be a "kill or capture" mission at face value.

    But the story has changed a few times now. But then again I expect that getting all the details right is going to be hard and would be for any admin.

    I think we need more of a detailed timeline on what was said when.
     
  3. TruthSeeker

    TruthSeeker New Member

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    Personally, I could care less if it was an "assassination" mission. The S.O.B. is dead. That's all that matters.

    Who gives a flying fu** what Obama's sons think. Their sperm donor was a coward and a mass murderer. If they were human, the sons would be happy their "daddy" is dead.
     
  4. Hobo1

    Hobo1 Active Member

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    I was overjoyed when I heard the news about bin Ladin - everybody was.

    But in retrospect, for posterity and having listened to the variety of changing stories of what happened, I would have greatly preferred if our country would have stuck to our moral principles and try to take him alive.

    If this were a police operation, we would not have shot someone in this situation. You know the drill. Stand far back and say put your hands on your head. Then you get the prisoner to lie down, hand-cuff him, pat him down, and take him away.

    That is the moral and legal thing to do. It may not have felt as good as revenge, but it would have sent a message that the US is a civilized nation that rejects terrorism. We certainly should not become a terrorist ourselves.

    I know that is esoteric and abstract, but if you are going to talk the talk against terrorist activities, then sometimes you have to walk the walk as well.
     
  5. TruthSeeker

    TruthSeeker New Member

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    So you believe that finding Osama Bin Laden and killing him is classified as a "terrorist activity"? That sort of idealism and "moral arrogance" gets people killed, namely AMERICAN people.

    This country has become soft. Too many Americans are way too concerned about what "other" countries and people around the world think of our actions in various situations.

    The contrast between the America during the World War 2 era and the America of today is frightening. Americans expect our military to take the "high ground" and be "morally correct", when we have a federal government that is overflowing with corruption, graft, extortion, and elected politicians who are dishonest, immoral, and self-serving.

    Need I remind you, and the other "moral superiors" in this forum, that Bin Laden didn't rob a liquor store or steal an old lady's purse. He was responsible for the deaths of THOUSANDS of Americans and other innocent civilians around the world.

    While people in this country are worrying about Osama Bin Laden and how the manner in which he was killed wasn't "fair" and "moral" and "the American way", there are plenty of terrorists in the United States and around the world who are plotting the murders of innocent American civilians, right now.

    Bin Laden got what he deserved. My only regret is that we didn't "murder" him back in the 90s. The WTC towers might still be standing if we had.
     
  6. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    I think you ment Osama...not Obama
     
  7. Hobo1

    Hobo1 Active Member

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    Here's my take on it - and it is not the moral high ground - it is solving the problem.

    Ten years ago the primary problem we had with Muslims was Israel and Palestine after each others throats. But, in general, I suppose their was an element that did not like Bush senior's Gulf War I, but the run-of-the-mill Muslim regarded the US as an economic powerhouse and a country to be admired. I was in some Muslim countries and they liked the trinkets I brought from America, like tee-shirts, etc.

    Now, they look at the whole situation and can see only America as an aggressor. They watch the US go into Afghanistan, then Iraq, then Afghanistan again, then Pakistan, now Libya. In the meantime, the Israel is looking like a big bully to the group of people called Palestinians. People remember when the US - or its allies - kills someone that you can relate to as a brother.

    So now you have pretty much the whole Muslim world hating us. I talked to a man from Pakistan a week ago (before OBL killing) and he said all of Pakistan hates us. How can we turn that around? The answer seems pretty clear to me... get the hell out of there. Killing Osama bin Ladin was the last piece of unfinished business we have in that area. Let us stop our enthusiasm for bring democracy to the Muslim world, and let's not try to "stabilize" Afghanistan and let them do whatever they have done for the past thousand years. Same thing with Libya and Iran.

    They all can't be the deadly enemies that the press would make them out to be. We have got a pretty comprehensive underground spy operation to keep up with people like bin Laden's predecessor. We can let our very capable intelligence gathering agencies do their job - and get our guns, airplanes and soldiers out of there.

    We have got to settle this feud with the Muslims of the world. We are a strong enough country and secure in our borders to take the first step.

    Now that we have show the world how tough we are, let's show them that we also can be rational. We've got to recognize that our attempts to stop terrorism is really making the problem worse. That is the heart of the problem. Our attempts at making the US a little bit more secure - is actually making us a lot more unsafe.
     
  8. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    it was not a police raid, it was a raid on a guy who very easily could have had a bomb on him, and is said to have been reaching for a weapon... I am shocked he did not seem to have a vest on...guess he was all talk and not willing to blow himself up like so many he sent to do that.

    I am sure if the Seal team thought they could get him alive they would, the intel would have been very good I am sure.
     
  9. Gipper

    Gipper Well-Known Member

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    That is not what the administration is claiming. There was never any assertion regarding a bomb on OBL or SEALs fearing for their lives resulting in the kill shot. You are speculating things that have absolutely no basis in fact to justify BO's actions. Why are you doing this?

    The administration has essentially admitted the mission was a kill mission. They have never claimed any intent to take OBL alive.
     
  10. TruthSeeker

    TruthSeeker New Member

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    Osama. Obama. I get them mixed up. One kills innocent people through violence. The other kills the spirit and future of American people.
     
  11. TruthSeeker

    TruthSeeker New Member

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    The most glaring flaw in your commentary about why the "whole Muslim world hates us" is that the U.S. "going into" Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan and Libya all happened AFTER the attacks on September 11, 2001, and AFTER all of the other acts of violence committed by these savages both at home and abroad. Remember the U.S.S. Cole bombing, the 1993 WTC bombing, the numerious embassy bombings, the Marine barracks bombing in Lebanon, the numerous nightclub bombings, and countless other acts of violence committed by the "Arabs" and "Muslims" in the past several decades? So your "justification" for Muslim anger at the United States is very weak, at best.

    Until people like you and others figure out that "Arabs" or "Muslims" or "radical Islamists" or "Islamo-terrorists", or whatever else you want to call them, are nothing more than sub-human savages with a long, long history of deception, violence, and complete disregard for human rights and human life, ALL civilized people, regardless of their ethnicity, religious beliefs, location, gender, age, etc., will continue to be in danger, both in our own country and around the world.

    We either fight fire with fire, or all civilized people will continue to suffer the consequences.

    Just imagine if this "sit around a campfire and sing Kumbaya" attitude were prevalent during World War 2. Imagine if we issued handcuffs and arrest warrants to our soldiers during World War 2, with orders to ARREST all German and Japanese military personnel, so we could ship them back to the U.S. for trial. Where would we be now?
     
  12. Hobo1

    Hobo1 Active Member

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    99% of the Muslims living in these countries are people living simple lives who do not have the intellectual capability or the media sources to understand that Osama bin Ladin was the reason why US military troops are in their country - or the reason a relative or distant friend died in some military episode.

    These people are trained to believe in Islam from the time they were young. I suspect you were trained to believe in Christianity because you were taught as a child. To the average Muslim, they may hear some story at Friday mosque prayer day that they must help repel the Christian raiders.

    But more important, they know their country has been invaded and partially controlled by a foreign army. That alone is enough to make somebody angry - as it would you if it happened in the US. We don't have to be great pals - all we have to do is leave them alone. Osama bin Ladin was an historical quirk. Left alone these countries will go back to their primitive ways of living in mud shacks and raising goats for a living.

    I even heard someone on Fox News say that the reason for our presence in Pakistan and Afghanistan is now mute... Americans will be coming home soon.
     
  13. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    why do you even talk? your so uninformed its scary.

    how sad is it to watch you cry that poor Osama got lead in his head.

    there is assertions that he may have had a bomb vest on ( the Seals did not ask to frisk him first , sorry) the....ahh F it who cares, you belive what you want even if a mountain of facts says your wrong.
     
  14. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    you know you sub Jews for Muslims there and it sounds like a god Nazi Speech. attack a whole faith and pretend like all are the same. And pretend like we are gods and our actions have always been moraly good and they are always moraly evil.

    I wounder how many Muslim Civilans would have to die before you would care even in the slightest....If all Muslims and Arabs acted like you claim, and held ideas like you do against them, against us...the US would be in a war one hell of a lot bigger then this 2...But lucky us, more of them out out in the streets fighting for things like freedom of speech, and more rights ...then are out trying to kill us.
     
  15. Gipper

    Gipper Well-Known Member

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    Could you please provide proof to back up your assertions?
     
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