A Real Holocaust: Dresden -- 13 February 1945

Hey lolo2 I apologized. Why did you fail to see that post?

Sheer idleness. Sorry!

In no way was it an act of 'revenge'. It was necessary to destroy the Nazi ability to continue to make war. Alas, strategy is not one of your fortes. You see, my grandfather knew EVERYTHING about the war, and he became riled when people claim Dresden was unnecessary since he had access to intelligence compiled by the British intelligence services, and the RAF.

Why all this sympathy for Dresden when major British cities were all but DESTROYED? I know since my family is from Britain, and they lived through the war. I don't expect Americans to understand since they cowered in their isolationist fear until the enemy was being beaten back.

"Dresden was Germany's seventh-largest city and, according to the RAF at the time, the largest remaining unbombed built-up area. Taylor writes that an official 1942 guide to the city described it as "one of the foremost industrial locations of the Reich" and in 1944, the German Army's High Command's Weapons Office listed 127 medium-to-large factories and workshops that were supplying the army with materiel."

Can you please supply the link for that statement?

And destroying citizens WANTONLY, as the allies did in the Dresden FIRE bombing and many others, is immoral and a war crime by any reasonable standard. The citizens of Germany, like the citizens of the UK during the Blitz, did not deserve destruction merely because their nation's leaders forced them into war. And while the Germans did bomb the UK heavily, what the Allies did to Germany late in the war, was much more reprehensible. Germany, like Japan, was nearly defenseless. It was out and out slaughter of non-combatants.

Dresden was, I suppose, a part of Harris's attempt to build up the RAF by talking of the effectiveness of saturation bombing. Not our finest hour. That's what happens in long wars though - look what Iraq and Afghanistan have done to all the soldiers concerned.

That does not make it right. Had the American and allied air forces limited their bombing to military installations, one could make a case for such a thing in a war. But the massive bombings of civilian areas, including the a-bombings, were entirely unjustified. Those bombings destroyed most of Europe's greatest cities. Leaving the continent in total ruin and causing the deaths of thousands of civilians. It was most barbaric.

Clearly - but long wars make for frustration, cold-hearted careerism and bloody-mindedness: it is just what happens. Such wars are best avoided, but the failure to fight the fascists in Spain made that one inevitable, alas.

An interesting statement--
on a planet--where--like it or not--one thing eats another in an endless chain of consumption to survive--and always has.
I think this is what they mean by "pissing in the wind".

Members of the same species - mostly - don't eat one another, and co-operative species tend to survive better. We don't HAVE to pretend to be wolves, and it is never very convincing, whatever our economic system.

I guess London, and all those other British cities destroyed are irrelevant, yes? I guess my father, being carried as an infant to the underground bomb shelters as his home was destroyed by the Junkers was irrelevant, yes? It is people like you who are libtards who seek to blame the wrong people in order to get your libtarded agendae across. It was one of your own, one Chamberlain who almost cost us our homeland. He was properly sent on his way, as you should be. NO doubt had you been around, we would have LOST WWII. Uttering 'No, don't bomb Germany! Think of the innocent lives you will destroy' in the middle of London whilst all around you, civilian lives were being snuffed out, and the city proper was obliterated. Do shut up. You are pissing me and the memory of my family off with your stupidity.

There was a problem with the fascists in Spain? Uh, you DID fight the fascists in Spain. YOu LOST.

It is BECAUSE Harris destroyed cities like Dresden that my father is alive today, so may you all FUCK OFF.

Another foolish uninformed post by you.

Hey everyone, I am a lib according to this poster. That is too funny.

Because the Germans bombed UK cities means the allies were justified in obliterating defenseless German cities killing untold numbers of German civilians and laying waste to most of Germany. That is your logic...or more accurately...most illogical.

No British city suffered anything like what Dresden suffered, and there were always excuses for the German terror bombing - though they were bad ones. The destruction of Dresden was cruel, philistine (a lovely city) and stupid, like the idiot Bomber Harris. As in London and Guernica, such horrors convince people they must fight to the death against barbarism.

Were you there? No. My family was. Dresden was NOT defenseless. It was heavily-defended, and you know it. The targets were not civilians, but industrial facilities, unlike London, Glasgow etc., which were virtually obliterated. Why don't you read how many pilots lost their fucking lives rightfully bombing the fuck out of Dresden, Berlin etc.? As I stated earlier, we simply returned what we were given. Just because we gave it better, you are whining like a typical libcock?

You were saying, dumbfuck? And that's just London alone. So, do piss off and stop insulting the memory of my family and friends who suffered during this terrible time.

Proof you have not a clue what you are talking about. My family was there, dipshit.

You are not informed. The Allies destroyed every major city in Germany. Destroyed means most buildings in every major city suffered damage or were leveled, causing huge civilian casualties. This did not occur in ANY CITY IN THE UK. NOT ONE CITY.

The allied bombings were against civilians as well as military installations. If you knew anything about anything, you would know German civilians suffered far greater than did the Limeys. So giving as good as you get is your philosophy...the philosophy of the barbarian...and you gave much worse than you were given.

And it was not the Brits doing most of the damage to Germany. It was American bombers. Just as we saved your worthless asses in WWI, we made the same mistake again in WWII. We should have minded our own business and stayed out of your stinking Euro wars, but sadly the power elite in America is no different than those in Europe. They love war.

The allied bombing of Germany was barbaric and unnecessary, just as it was in Japan.

You have very little understanding of tactics and strategy. I would also ask you to visit the UK, and tell them their cities were relatively untouched as you claim here. As I stated earlier, my FAMILY WAS THERE. They witnessed the carnage firsthand. The ONLY REASON Britain was not completely destroyed would be thanks to our RAF.
Of course the Germans suffered more since they were being hit from two sides. They got what they brought upon themselves. It was WAR, you moron. You would they should slap each other in the wrist? The very existence of our homeland was at stake. If not for our Navy and Air Force, we would have been wiped out. Oh, but that does not matter because you are concerned ONLY with the suffering of the Germans whom I need remind you STARTED the war. You would my people sit back and say 'oh, let the krauts bomb the shit out of our cities, kill our civilians. We do not wish to be barbarians, so let us not bomb them back, and harder to teach them war is a detriment to them.' It is people like you that had sought to keep the US isolationist during WWII.
You did not 'save our worthless asses'. Britain was never in danger of being conquered due to our Navy and Air Force, those words straight from the mouth of my grandfather who was there. The ONLY REASON the USA intervened via lend-lease would be the fact they knew if Britain fell, you would NEVER be able to take on Germany since you would have no foothold in Europe. So, you sent some garbage our way to help us continue the fight against the Nazis because IT BENEFITTED YOU. We lost our Empire paying for all of that shit. Never forget it. You Americans simply forgot how strong our navy was. Hitler's planned landings at Britain were nothing more than a pipe dream, and even he knew it which was why he cancelled it. I would suggest you visit Europe, and tell them you Americans saved their sorry asses, then come back and recount to me how one of them punched you in the mouth for the insult. You did NOTHING in comparison to the British and the Canadians. Yes, even the Canadians did far, far more than you Americans. When war was declared, we Canadians did not hide under the tables at our doughnut shops as you Americans did in fright. We joined our British brethren because, unlike you, we have BALLS. Remember, the only SUCCESSFUL landing during Normandy would be the CANADIAN landings at Juno beach. CANADIAN troops were the first to infiltrate into enemy territory. CANADIANS were the first into Paris. The first into Rome.