a question for the atheists

[cashmcall]

I've heard a lot of atheists use the argument of evil against the concept of God, which essentially is that the existence of evil disproves God since God is meant to be all good, I think the opposite however, typically I respond to them by saying that the existence of evil points to the existence of good, since evil is the absence of good; and what standard is there for judging good without the concept of God? I've always thought it a good response to say that the fact that they have the moral criteria, the knowledge of moral law, to condemn God means that they have a Moral Law-Giver to whom they subconsciously appeal. Give me some feedback... is there an atheist response to this I haven't heard?

 

[Lagboltz]

I've heard a lot of atheists use the argument of evil against the concept of God, which essentially is that the existence of evil disproves God since God is meant to be all good, I think the opposite however, typically I respond to them by saying that the existence of evil points to the existence of good, since evil is the absence of good; and what standard is there for judging good without the concept of God? I've always thought it a good response to say that the fact that they have the moral criteria, the knowledge of moral law, to condemn God means that they have a Moral Law-Giver to whom they subconsciously appeal. Give me some feedback... is there an atheist response to this I haven't heard?

I'm a loyal card carrying atheist. I always thought it is futile to argue for or against the existence of God. I think most of us have intuitive instincts on morality -- about causing harm for no reason, stealing, etc. My hypothesis is that what we call moral principles are instincts that evolved over the millennia to insure the survival of the clan. Of course there are amoral outliers among us that have not correctly inherited these instincts, such as mass murders. In short the Moral Law-Giver is the instincts given by the evolution of primate social structures.

 

[Gipper]

I'm a loyal card carrying atheist. I always thought it is futile to argue for or against the existence of God. I think most of us have intuitive instincts on morality -- about causing harm for no reason, stealing, etc. My hypothesis is that what we call moral principles are instincts that evolved over the millennia to insure the survival of the clan. Of course there are amoral outliers among us that have not correctly inherited these instincts, such as mass murders. In short the Moral Law-Giver is the instincts given by the evolution of primate social structures.

That has to be one of the most absurd things I have ever read. You really believe humans are born with an innate goodness and an ability to decipher morality and truth...by instinct. Yeah we just evolved into being and doing good....then why do some humans do bad? Did they not evolve?

Too funny.....beyond hilarious.

 

[Lagboltz]

That has to be one of the most absurd things I have ever read. You really believe humans are born with an innate goodness and an ability to decipher morality and truth...by instinct. Yeah we just evolved into being and doing good....then why do some humans do bad? Did they not evolve?

Too funny.....beyond hilarious.

There have been lots of studies on primates in clans that found that they had an innate fairness, sharing and empathy toward each other. That is the only way a clan can survive in the long term. Sure part of it is passed on by parents and environment maybe today parents are overriding the primate instincts and passing it from generation to generation. My parents were atheists too, and as a kid I did not do shop lifting and stealing like my catholic friends. If you don't believe in instincts, then I am glad that your God holds you to moral standards. I don't need one.

Why do some humans do bad? I already mentioned that in my post.

 

[dogtowner]

That has to be one of the most absurd things I have ever read. You really believe humans are born with an innate goodness and an ability to decipher morality and truth...by instinct. Yeah we just evolved into being and doing good....then why do some humans do bad? Did they not evolve?

Too funny.....beyond hilarious.

Bill Cosby had a story focusing on the myth that children are honest. kind of drives your point home.

 

[cashmcall]

I'm a loyal card carrying atheist. I always thought it is futile to argue for or against the existence of God. I think most of us have intuitive instincts on morality -- about causing harm for no reason, stealing, etc. My hypothesis is that what we call moral principles are instincts that evolved over the millennia to insure the survival of the clan. Of course there are amoral outliers among us that have not correctly inherited these instincts, such as mass murders. In short the Moral Law-Giver is the instincts given by the evolution of primate social structures.

What got me started on this was... I found a blog, on Tumblr, which was "anti-theist" and "evolutionist" while simultaneously being "anti-racist" and "anti-sexist," I anonymously sent a message asking her to justify those "tolerant" views, seems to me that an evolutionist would be perfectly fine with racism and sexism, aren't those perfect examples of the work of natural selection? good response... Thanks!

 

[cashmcall]

There have been lots of studies on primates in clans that found that they had an innate fairness, sharing and empathy toward each other. That is the only way a clan can survive in the long term. Sure part of it is passed on by parents and environment maybe today parents are overriding the primate instincts and passing it from generation to generation. My parents were atheists too, and as a kid I did not do shop lifting and stealing like my catholic friends. If you don't believe in instincts, then I am glad that your God holds you to moral standards. I don't need one.

Why do some humans do bad? I already mentioned that in my post.

Lag you do understand..we didn't evolve from apes..I thought I made that clear a long time ago.....

 

[Gipper]

Lag you do understand..we didn't evolve from apes..I thought I made that clear a long time ago.....

He believes we did evolve from apes, which is another absurdity promoted by the left.

 

[Lagboltz]

Lag you do understand..we didn't evolve from apes..I thought I made that clear a long time ago.....

You are right. We did not evolve from apes. That is an absurdity promoted by the right. We and apes both evolved along separate paths from a more primordial form of primates.

 

[Lagboltz]

What got me started on this was... I found a blog, on Tumblr, which was "anti-theist" and "evolutionist" while simultaneously being "anti-racist" and "anti-sexist," I anonymously sent a message asking her to justify those "tolerant" views, seems to me that an evolutionist would be perfectly fine with racism and sexism, aren't those perfect examples of the work of natural selection? good response... Thanks!

Did she have a response?

 

[Gipper]

There have been lots of studies on primates in clans that found that they had an innate fairness, sharing and empathy toward each other. That is the only way a clan can survive in the long term. Sure part of it is passed on by parents and environment maybe today parents are overriding the primate instincts and passing it from generation to generation. My parents were atheists too, and as a kid I did not do shop lifting and stealing like my catholic friends. If you don't believe in instincts, then I am glad that your God holds you to moral standards. I don't need one.

Why do some humans do bad? I already mentioned that in my post.

"Wisdom begins with the fear of God." You, it is apparent, will never find wisdom.

Believing humans are instinctively good, is utter foolishness. If you had bothered to study history, you would know this.

 

[Lagboltz]

"Wisdom begins with the fear of God." You, it is apparent, will never find wisdom.

Believing humans are instinctively good, is utter foolishness. If you had bothered to study history, you would know this.

I have the same religious beliefs as Albert Einstein... A sort of Spinoza Deism. Albert was reeking with wisdom. You will never find wisdom if you believe "Wisdom begins with the fear of God"

Common primate clan sizes are estimated to number as large as the hundreds. I would agree that with more recent urban population explosions, the clan concept is probably buried.

 

[cashmcall]

Did she have a response?

Yes she did..and it wasn't nice...about 4 pages long...

 

[cashmcall]

People can be GOOD WITHOUT GOD.. maybe...But BETTER WITH GOD..for sure

 

[GenSeneca]

...what standard is there for judging good without the concept of God?

​

The standard of value of the Objectivist ethics—the standard by which one judges what is good or evil—is man’s life, or: that which is required for man’s survival qua man.​

Since reason is man’s basic means of survival, that which is proper to the life of a rational being is the good; that which negates, opposes or destroys it is the evil. - Ayn Rand, The Virtue of Selfishness​