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A glowing report on radiation

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by Little-Acorn, Mar 16, 2011.

  1. Little-Acorn

    Little-Acorn Well-Known Member

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    A surprising report, with good references going back years and even decades.

    Once the usual hysterics get over screaming that Coulter is always wrong, full of lies and the rest of their balderdash, it would be very interesting to look up the reports of the people she cites here and confirm some of the things they say.

    While a LOT of atomic radiation can certainly harm or kill you, could it be that low-to-moderate doses actually HELP you, as a dose of weakened viruses (flu vaccine, polio vaccine etc.) can help you by activating your body's defenses to fight off later, stronger viruses of the same type? The mechanism is different, of course, but these sources seem to indicate that historically, low doses of radiation HAVE been found to result in people living longer on average, with fewer cases of cancer.

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    http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=42347

    A Glowing Report on Radiation

    by Ann Coulter
    03/16/2011

    With the terrible earthquake and resulting tsunami that have devastated Japan, the only good news is that anyone exposed to excess radiation from the nuclear power plants is now probably much less likely to get cancer.

    This only seems counterintuitive because of media hysteria for the past 20 years trying to convince Americans that radiation at any dose is bad. There is, however, burgeoning evidence that excess radiation operates as a sort of cancer vaccine.

    As The New York Times science section reported in 2001, an increasing number of scientists believe that at some level -- much higher than the minimums set by the U.S. government -- radiation is good for you. "They theorize," the Times said, that "these doses protect against cancer by activating cells' natural defense mechanisms."

    Among the studies mentioned by the Times was one in Canada finding that tuberculosis patients subjected to multiple chest X-rays had much lower rates of breast cancer than the general population.

    And there are lots more!

    A $10 million Department of Energy study from 1991 examined 10 years of epidemiological research by the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health on 700,000 shipyard workers, some of whom had been exposed to 10 times more radiation than the others from their work on the ships' nuclear reactors. The workers exposed to excess radiation had a 24 percent lower death rate and a 25 percent lower cancer mortality than the non-irradiated workers.

    Isn't that just incredible? I mean, that the Department of Energy spent $10 million doing something useful? Amazing, right?

    In 1983, a series of apartment buildings in Taiwan were accidentally constructed with massive amounts of cobalt 60, a radioactive substance. After 16 years, the buildings' 10,000 occupants developed only five cases of cancer. The cancer rate for the same age group in the general Taiwanese population over that time period predicted 170 cancers.

    The people in those buildings had been exposed to radiation nearly five times the maximum "safe" level according to the U.S. government. But they ended up with a cancer rate 96 percent lower than the general population.

    Bernard L. Cohen, a physics professor at the University of Pittsburgh, compared radon exposure and lung cancer rates in 1,729 counties covering 90 percent of the U.S. population. His study in the 1990s found far fewer cases of lung cancer in those counties with the highest amounts of radon -- a correlation that could not be explained by smoking rates.

    Tom Bethell, author of the "Politically Incorrect Guide to Science," has been writing for years about the beneficial effects of some radiation, or "hormesis." A few years ago, he reported on a group of scientists who concluded their conference on hormesis at the University of Massachusetts by repairing to a spa in Boulder, Mont., specifically in order to expose themselves to excess radiation.

    At the Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine in Boulder, people pay $5 to descend 85 feet into an old mining pit to be irradiated with more than 400 times the EPA-recommended level of radon. In the summer, 50 people a day visit the mine hoping for relief from chronic pain and autoimmune disorders.

    Amazingly, even the Soviet-engineered disaster at Chernobyl in 1986 can be directly blamed for the deaths of no more than the 31 people inside the plant who died in the explosion. Although news reports generally claimed a few thousand people died as a result of Chernobyl -- far fewer than the tens of thousands initially predicted -- that hasn't been confirmed by studies.

    Indeed, after endless investigations, including by the United Nations, Manhattan Project veteran Theodore Rockwell summarized the reports to Bethell in 2002, saying, "They have not yet reported any deaths outside of the 30 who died in the plant."

    Even the thyroid cancers in people who lived near the reactor were attributed to low iodine in the Russian diet -- and consequently had no effect on the cancer rate.

    Meanwhile, the animals around the Chernobyl reactor, who were not evacuated, are "thriving," according to scientists quoted in the April 28, 2002 Sunday Times (UK).

    Dr. Dade W. Moeller, a radiation expert and professor emeritus at Harvard, told the Times that it's been hard to find excess cancers even from Hiroshima and Nagasaki, particularly because one-third of the population will get cancer anyway. There were about 90,000 survivors of the atomic bombs in 1945 and, more than 50 years later, half of them were still alive. (Other scientists say there were 700 excess cancer deaths among the 90,000.)

    Although it is hardly a settled scientific fact that excess radiation is a health benefit, there's certainly evidence that it decreases the risk of some cancers -- and there are plenty of scientists willing to say so. But Jenny McCarthy's vaccine theories get more press than Harvard physics professors' studies on the potential benefits of radiation. (And they say conservatives are anti-science!)

    I guess good radiation stories are not as exciting as news anchors warning of mutant humans and scary nuclear power plants -- news anchors who, by the way, have injected small amounts of poison into their foreheads to stave off wrinkles. Which is to say: The general theory that small amounts of toxins can be healthy is widely accepted --except in the case of radiation.

    Every day Americans pop multivitamins containing trace amount of zinc, magnesium, selenium, copper, manganese, chromium, molybdenum, nickel, boron -- all poisons.

    They get flu shots. They'll drink copious amounts of coffee to ingest a poison: caffeine. (Back in the '70s, Professor Cohen offered to eat as much plutonium as Ralph Nader would eat caffeine -- an offer Nader never accepted.)

    But in the case of radiation, the media have Americans convinced that the minutest amount is always deadly.

    Although reporters love to issue sensationalized reports about the danger from Japan's nuclear reactors, remember that, so far, thousands have died only because of Mother Nature. And the survivors may outlive all of us over here in hermetically sealed, radiation-free America.
     
  2. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    I doubt we would be looking for the positive side of radiation if it were not for the lefts knee-jerk opposition to it. But it is just as reactionary to be pro-nuclear just because the left is anti nuclear.

    Nuclear is an energy option that should be on the table but only if it is very safe. If the cost of making it safe are less than what it takes to produce it competitively then so be it, but if the cost of producing it safely are so high that it is not competitive then so be that too.

    Apparently the reactors in Japan were not designed to be good enough and people knew it. So we learn from those mistakes and we make ours better. We probably already do.
     
  3. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    damn those knee jerk reactions to...Radiation flooding over cities where people have had to to flee for miles...and for days now...and those past there have had to stay in side and fear the rain and snow...

    but yes its the left overreacting...to the 2nd worse nuclear power disaster ...thats not getting better in fact maybe worse......
     
  4. Stalin

    Stalin Well-Known Member

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    Where do you get a nonsense mind-set like this ?

    Comrade Stalin
     
  5. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    Apparently you are unaware of the lefts knew jerk reaction and the desire to cease nuclear energy programs. That or you think it is completely appropriate.
     
  6. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    Like Pocket you did not clearly state what you find to be nonsense. I assume that you also think the left either is not opposed to nuclear power and is not using accidents as an excuse or you think that it is a completely sane response to want to eliminate all nuclear power based on a couple of accidents.

    Acorn, you may have been right to start a thread like this.
     
  7. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    yes its me, not the one posting that small amounts of nuclear radiation from a plant may be good for us...While pointing out that right now Nuclear Reactors have forced tens of thousands from there homes and has a whole nation living in fear right now....

    But yes its because of my knee jerk reaction to the facts I guess....
     
  8. nobull

    nobull Well-Known Member

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    For all you nuclear overreactors,lol.. here is a capsule of the situation in Japan.

    When the magnitude 8.9 earthquake struck, the shaking caused safety mechanisms to shut down 11 of Japan's 55 nuclear reactors, plunging control rods into the cores where the fuel pellets reside so that electricity could no longer be produced.

    The cores however continued to produce heat, as the boron absorbs the neutrons and the water that cooled them had to be continually recycled to cooling towers or it boils away [3 mile island had low water coinditions], allowing the cores to overheat and melt.

    But at five reactors, two at Fukushima Daiichi and three at Fukushima Daini 7 miles up the coast, water from the tsunami that followed the quake damaged the backup diesel generators that supply power to the pumps. Of this would not have been an issue if the grid had not been shut down by the utility commission. Bad timing. So batteries took over, but they had only a limited lifetime, so the cores got hotter.

    The first unit is the old GE boiler. The trouble with this design is the base of the containment. It is mostly concrete with some lead but if the core got hot enough it could melt through. New reactors don't have this issue and they don't require diesel back up to pump water to the cooling towers.

    At present reactors 1, 2 and 3 are full of sea water and the radiation levels which were recorded at roughly 1000 x the background, which is NOT dangerous. has been dropping.

    So the vibration sensors shut down the reactors. The Tsunami damaged the diesel generators and they went to battery. So in order to cool it they resorted to salt water cooling.

    As for the "explosions of the containment buildings. If you care to notice, like all hydrogen explosions, they are not compressive so the steel superstructure is still quite intact, the block face blew out from the top.

    So get hysterical... if you want. I think it is misplaced. As I have said, modern reactors are quite different and don't rely on diesel generator backup.

    doug
     
  9. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    go tell Japan they are overacting...I am sure they will agree.
     
  10. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    Whether they think they are or not is not really relevant to the issue of if they are or are not overreacting.

    I am sure people in the western us do not think they are overreacting but rushing out to get iodine pills, but barring some significant changes they are.
     
  11. Little-Acorn

    Little-Acorn Well-Known Member

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    So nobody wants to comment on the findings of the scientists Coulter cited, who demonstrated that people exposed to moderately higher radiation levels than the rest of us, ACTUALLY HAD longer lives and lower rates of cancer?

    In other words, nobody wants to get serious about the subject?
     
  12. nobull

    nobull Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure what the criteria was but if the Japanese have been hit by roughly 200 tsunamis, they had to have some kind of 100 year criteria or even thousand year criteria for site selection.

    The diesel generators baffle me. The had two failures seven miles apart. They had no further back up plan to hoist a replacement in by helicopter. And when they did bring replacement generators in, they couldn't couple them. This is weird.

    Even yesterday the Utility is running in a new powerline. So the question begs to be asked what is going on with the diesel generators on site and the replacements. Any competent electrician can hook up a generator to a power box in short order or to charge the batteries and get some intermittent cooling. So this story is out of sync.

    Japan isn't over reacting..we are..That is my whole point. We don't know but rather than speculate we just have to wait for the facts. What we do know is that for some reason there was a big delay between batteries and the failed generator replacements.

    The cooling towers are basically pumps and fans with piping going to the units. It seems to me that they have plenty of very cold sea water that could be pumped into the cooling pipes by diesel pumps and the fans could be started by diesel generation. But this doesn't seem to be happening.

    Asians are very good with math skills; that is solving differential equations or integrals but they didn't have a clue how to use it creatively to solve real world problems. So maybe they just don't think abstractly enough to extrapolate ideas. I also believe that without extrapolation it is difficult to learn from mistakes since mistakes are really abstractions. Who sets out to make mistakes. Nobody. But they happen as a mathematical perturbation and it is probably impossible to out think all the permeabilities. So instead, you just start with the worst case scenario in this case... no power to the nuclear facility. So then they build in a simple reactive plan and design it into the plant. This is how modern nuclear facilities do it. So now they can shut down very rapidly and even sequester the fuel pellets. There is a lot they have done to improve the safety issues and this Japanese plant is something of a throwback.

    Up until yesterday they only had 50 people on the site. Now they have 300 on the site. 50 was never enough people to handle this. They need teams to work on competing strategies. But the same mess occurred with BP leading me to believe that decisions are being made for political purposes. Also senior engineers are generally alcoholic idiots with lots of personal problems. Japanese corporate structure is very rigid so undoubtedly the guys in charge are not the brightest bulbs in the house.

    I agree that the communications has been politically limited. This is frustrating but likely meaningless. The data at some point doesn't matter. They have to prioritize the work and that work should be in setting up those cooling towers and setting up a pressure release system. The pressure is on them now. They claim to have the power line almost in place. So I take that at face value and see what happens.

    The radiation is what it is mostly Iodine isotopes with a short half life and Cesium with a 30 year half life and and reasonable decay cycle to barium 137 a beta emitter. This can be dealt with.


    just sayin
    doug
     
  13. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    I said the left was overreacting by wanting to abandon nuclear programs in the US based on the problem in Japan. You could have said that you are not against nuclear programs in the US but instead you included yourself in with the group of lefties who are against nuclear programs.

    So if the shoe fits...
     
  14. Rick

    Rick Well-Known Member

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    Reality injection for this thread:

    Total number of people who have died from radiation leaks from nuke reactors in the US, which has 104 reactors and has operated them for 70 years:


    A big, fat, perfectly round >>>>ZERO<<<<<<<<.


    :D
     
  15. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Rick.
     
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