9/11 The US did it or they are massively incompetent

[Mr. Shaman]

No steel framed building in the world outside of the 9/11 incidents has ever collapsed due to fire.

You've got a site that compares The WTC with any-and-all fires at industrial-sites, huh?

Fine. Let's see it.

"Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength — and that required exposure to much less heat.

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F."

 

[hearme]

Still blaming BUSH????
The entire Internet is full of such immaturity, and fabrications. It seems the incompetence being discussed on this, and most other subjects is proven out by those who suggest the incompetence.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Another stunning rebuttal

With powerful arguments against the facts like that how could anyone believe them?

BTW what I am posting here is not a conpsiracy theory. It is basically the two theories that have been proffered for what happened on 9/11.

Do ty and keep up Pocketfullofsh....

Yes, and of course the theory you are to push. is the CONSPIRICY

And you can name call all you want. fact is , everything you plan to say, already been said and shown wanting.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Well, I can't go there yet. But has there been a study on the issue... peer reviewed and available to the public? I'd be interested in it.

I would be happy to explain it to you, but I don't feel like feeding the Conspiricy Trool... if you want , you can send me a Private message I can explain it and show you a few links....Already have to this guy, but they don't listen.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Still blaming BUSH????
The entire Internet is full of such immaturity, and fabrications. It seems the incompetence being discussed on this, and most other subjects is proven out by those who suggest the incompetence.

Or, equally, it COULD be true.

 

[OldTrapper]

So you are saying that the CIA intel is so crappy that they couldn't spot this most intricate of plans?

But their intel is good enough to put people in GTMO and torture them without trial and you lot think it is OK because they must be guilty?

And that these sophisticated Al Qaeda operatives were smart enough to pull off the attack but not smart enough to keep quiet about having no interest in learning take off or landing at the simulator school?

The threat of airliners being used as missiles has been known about for years prior to 9/11.

Having no defences against such an eventuality is a breathtaking dereliction of duty. And as Cheyney took control of the relevant fighter planes 3 months prior to the attack maybe someone should start by questioning him.

And if what you are saying is true about the fighter planes why did they actually scramble some? Shame it was from an airbase too far away to get there in time rather than from the obvious one close by.

The US had no problem shooting down an Iranian airliner full of civilians 5 months before Locherbie

Well, since you chose to ignore the obvious in the other thread, I'll ask it again in this one.

Considering all of the warning that was given under Clinton, and nothing was done, why do you blame Bush who could not have done anything to prevent this from occuring?

There was no warning given of a specific time, and date, so how could one know which NORAD jets to keep on alert, or schedule training flights for?

Jamie Gorelich, under Janet Reno, had issued an opinion that the FBI, CIA, and DOD, could not share information. Since the actual terrorists were working, and training, in FBI juresdiction, and information gathered by them could not be co-ordinated with intel from the CIA (and we know that the FBI did have just such intel) can you blame Bush for that failure also.

There are just too many inconsistencies in your theory that even you cannot explain as to make your whole conspiracy unbelievable.

Oh yes, rather then use wikipedia, a very unreliable source, why not try one with some credibility?

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=2

 

[rationalist]

You have missed my point rather spectacularly.

I am saying that either the official account is nonesense or the US defence systems and intel at that time are ludicrous.

So either the Bush admin was directly or indirectly complicit.

Wanna try again?

 

[rationalist]

Hey Pocketfullofsh...

Why not send your (alleged) explanation to everyone?

If you can send it to citizenzen you can send it to anyone.

Or is it hush hush, need to know and all that and only suitable for people you don't know who register for political debating societies?

 

[OldTrapper]

You have missed my point rather spectacularly.

I am saying that either the official account is nonesense or the US defence systems and intel at that time are ludicrous.

So either the Bush admin was directly or indirectly complicit.

Wanna try again?

Again though, other then holding meeting with some group, or committee, you have not given even one example of what Bush could have legitimately done. It takes time to train sky marshalls, and money; it takes time, and money, to harden the cockpit doors; it takes time to fix the screw up that Clinton created with the Gorelick opinion, etc. And it took time fighting Daschle to get any money for the NSA. In fact, before 911 actually occured, and the people were angered, the Dems had no interest in doing anything to secure the country.

Now, would you care to try anything?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Well, since you chose to ignore the obvious in the other thread, I'll ask it again in this one.

Considering all of the warning that was given under Clinton, and nothing was done, why do you blame Bush who could not have done anything to prevent this from occuring?

There was no warning given of a specific time, and date, so how could one know which NORAD jets to keep on alert, or schedule training flights for?

Jamie Gorelich, under Janet Reno, had issued an opinion that the FBI, CIA, and DOD, could not share information. Since the actual terrorists were working, and training, in FBI juresdiction, and information gathered by them could not be co-ordinated with intel from the CIA (and we know that the FBI did have just such intel) can you blame Bush for that failure also.

There are just too many inconsistencies in your theory that even you cannot explain as to make your whole conspiracy unbelievable.

Oh yes, rather then use wikipedia, a very unreliable source, why not try one with some credibility?

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=2

to bad you did not ask me, I could respond do that...

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Hey Pocketfullofsh...

Why not send your (alleged) explanation to everyone?

If you can send it to citizenzen you can send it to anyone.

Or is it hush hush, need to know and all that and only suitable for people you don't know who register for political debating societies?

learn to read, already have...Its not my fault you failed to read the threads and links

 

[rationalist]

Ok Pocketfullofsh... you have nothing

Oldtrapper, I have listed several things Bush could have done.

For example, the CIA, on Bush's watch, could have spotted several Arabs learning to crash an airliner on a simluator then all boarding planes on the same day and done something about it.

Now I know you are somewhat intellectually challenged from the very poor English you use but could you just try and read what I have written above and tell me why the CIA did nothing.

Or why ALL the fighter planes were conveninently elsewhere on that day? Bush could have had people in charge who wouldn't do such a stupid thing. He could at least have fired the person responsible.

Go on old*rapper try that for size.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20100219/pl_usnw/DC57612_1

Interesting article about a group of architects and engineers who say that the 9/11 Commission report was bogus and they have the proof. As I have said in the past, there are simply too many unanswered questions and too many simplistic anwers to explain what really happened on 9/11.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

yea takes alot of of thinking to figure out how a Giant missle loaded with Fuel ( aka a (747) could knock down a building if it hit it at high speed....and then started a huge fire....golly its just soooo hard....

 

[rationalist]

Tower 7 was not hit by anything

An inconvenint truth

It is interesting that you are desperate to believe the official version when there are so many holes in it and so many credible opponents of it.

Try Pilotsfor91truth.com and engineersfor911truth.com

And it doesn't seem to throw you that the same people lying about what happened also lied about WMD and regime change to justify a war that they knew would kill lots of Americans. They also put a woman on stage claiming to have seen babies thrown from incubators by Iraqi soldiers which must be a miracle as she has never been to Iraq. They also knew that Americasn would not question her story and would swallow it wholesale.

If the US Government was in the dock the prosecution would discredit their testimony in seconds by showing how often it lies in ways that result in American deaths.

But this is how they get away with it. They know that most Americans are so stupid, gullible and nationalistic that they would never accept that their leaders do very bad things.