9/11 Terrorist Trial - Attacking the Constitution

[TheFranklinParty]

Our current administration has found it fit to bring the 9/11 terrorists to NYC. They will sit in a civilian criminal court. They will be given the rights of an American citizen and have the U.S. Constitution in their corner. Besides the concern of further Muslim extremist attacks during the trial, there is a greater fear – the evisceration of our Constitution.

Let me explain, there are four Constitutional issues that will be put into question: Miranda, chain of evidence, illegal search and seizure, and coercion/torture. It is almost certain that the detainees weren’t Mirandized prior to questioning. The chain of evidence was more than likely not followed in the villages and mountain of Afghanistan and Pakistan where these individuals were captured. I highly doubt there was a search warrant issued for the military team that captured them. Finally, any amount of information gathered without the presence of an attorney could be suggested to be coerced

What does this mean? Every stitch of evidence against these terrorists could be thrown out. Within a civil criminal court it will be hard to convict these individuals, but that won’t happen. The citizens of this country won’t allow it. We are being put into a Catch-22. We are being given a choice between justice for those who died in 9/11 or our civil liberties. That is the trade off. The reality is that they will be convicted, and in doing so we will gut our own Constitution. This trial will create legal arguments for the government to walk all over our civil rights. If evidence is allowed with disregard to the Constitution we will have set a precedent that there is no turning back from.

The fact that we are allowing foreign war criminals the use of our constitution is ludicrous. I have fought the urge to question the motivation of this administration, but this act makes me doubt their motives and intent.

 

[Richard Savage]

No, it is not an attack on the Constitution, but in accordance with it. We live - as in every free society - subject to the rule of law. It is no different in the case of those charged with acts of terrorism.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

and if the charges fell threw, they have about 500 others sitting in there back pocket to make sure they never see the light of day. Your so scared of laws and justice...you just want them to throw away the key, no trial, nothing...and pretend that the US can just take anyone they want from any other nation, and lock them away with no trial right? Just say terrorist and its done...they have no rights

 

[pocketfullofshells]

and if the charges fell threw, they have about 500 others sitting in there back pocket to make sure they never see the light of day. Your so scared of laws and justice...you just want them to throw away the key, no trial, nothing...and pretend that the US can just take anyone they want from any other nation, and lock them away with no trial right? Just say terrorist and its done...they have no rights

also I take it you don't know a court basicly gutted Miranda a year or 2 ago, saying it was not always needed. ( and do you even know if he was not told his rights? or do you just guess?)

 

[asur]

I think the Obama administration has again showed they are more concerned about themselves and politics, than the people they serve.

From the Politico:
All five men set to be transferred to Manhattan were already facing charges before military commissions at Guantanamo Bay. Many Sept. 11 victims’ families think the legal proceedings should have stayed there.

“Families are furious about this,” said Debra Burlingame, whose brother Chic Burlingame was the American Airlines pilot of one of the planes hijacked on Sept. 11. She said more than 300 family members have implored the administration not to move the trial to New York. “They know we don’t support this. We support military commissions but they are going to see a wave of fury, and I don’t think they’re prepared for it,” she said Friday after the decision became public.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29486.html


Lets' hope these families raise a stink and help vote the Obama Democrats out of office!

Game Score: Islamic Terrorists 13, Fort Hood 0

 

[Stalin]

To my knowledge, there never was, and there never will be, a prosecution against those in the US who organised and funded money for the IRA in their operations in Northern Ireland.

Similarly, there will probably never be any prosecution for the war criminals who launched the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003 - an invasion launched under the bogus pretext that Iraq had WMD that posed a threat to the US and the UK.

The reason for this trial now, is to keep the pot of fear bubbling, with the trial happening in a place where a fair judge and jury could not possibly be found.

Comrade Stalin

 

[top gun]

Our current administration has found it fit to bring the 9/11 terrorists to NYC. They will sit in a civilian criminal court. They will be given the rights of an American citizen and have the U.S. Constitution in their corner. Besides the concern of further Muslim extremist attacks during the trial, there is a greater fear – the evisceration of our Constitution.

Let me explain, there are four Constitutional issues that will be put into question: Miranda, chain of evidence, illegal search and seizure, and coercion/torture. It is almost certain that the detainees weren’t Mirandized prior to questioning. The chain of evidence was more than likely not followed in the villages and mountain of Afghanistan and Pakistan where these individuals were captured. I highly doubt there was a search warrant issued for the military team that captured them. Finally, any amount of information gathered without the presence of an attorney could be suggested to be coerced

What does this mean? Every stitch of evidence against these terrorists could be thrown out. Within a civil criminal court it will be hard to convict these individuals, but that won’t happen. The citizens of this country won’t allow it. We are being put into a Catch-22. We are being given a choice between justice for those who died in 9/11 or our civil liberties. That is the trade off. The reality is that they will be convicted, and in doing so we will gut our own Constitution. This trial will create legal arguments for the government to walk all over our civil rights. If evidence is allowed with disregard to the Constitution we will have set a precedent that there is no turning back from.

The fact that we are allowing foreign war criminals the use of our constitution is ludicrous. I have fought the urge to question the motivation of this administration, but this act makes me doubt their motives and intent.

What this means is this.

We are a country of laws. We have no problem legally convicting child rapists killers, mass murders, major gang bangers, international drug cartel leaders and mafia kingpins as well as terrorists just like the one that tried to blow up the Trade Center the first time back in 1993. He's been in Federal prison for years now. Not a single solitary problem. Not one.

The ONLY... I REPEAT ONLY REASON that the Right is whining so about trials is because they know all the TORTURE that the Bush administration did will finally completely come out. And that's perfectly fine... it should come out. They acted like thugs and the fact that this new administration is being out front about it is a wonderful thing and a major reason why the rest of the world once again sees us as fair.

And make no ridiculous claims. There is no doubt. No doubt whatsoever that the government needs in no way any confessions gleaned through the Bush TORTURE and has tons of evidence on each defendant to convict them with the death penalty.

This will be the case. Write it down... remember this post. Justice will be done once again in true American style.

 

[TheFranklinParty]

What this means is this.

We are a country of laws. We have no problem legally convicting child rapists killers, mass murders, major gang bangers, international drug cartel leaders and mafia kingpins as well as terrorists just like the one that tried to blow up the Trade Center the first time back in 1993. He's been in Federal prison for years now. Not a single solitary problem. Not one.

The ONLY... I REPEAT ONLY REASON that the Right is whining so about trials is because they know all the TORTURE that the Bush administration did will finally completely come out. And that's perfectly fine... it should come out. They acted like thugs and the fact that this new administration is being out front about it is a wonderful thing and a major reason why the rest of the world once again sees us as fair.

And make no ridiculous claims. There is no doubt. No doubt whatsoever that the government needs in no way any confessions gleaned through the Bush TORTURE and has tons of evidence on each defendant to convict them with the death penalty.

This will be the case. Write it down... remember this post. Justice will be done once again in true American style.

You guys are so caught up in the right and the left that you're missing the point. If they admit the evidence collected outside the acceptable limits in the constitution then it will make those civil liberties null and void going forward. This isn't' just about the confessions.

Doesn't it scare any of you to live in a country that will no longer have Miranda, chain of evidence, and illegal search and seizure as a protections? This is what will happen if they admit almost all of the evidence and if they don't then their is little to convict them on and they will look railroaded. You say they have ton's of evidence, but think how it was gathered. These people didn't live in the U.S., so what judge OKed a search warrant for their Afghanistan hut.

Please get a grip. Stop focusing on Bush and Obama and focus on the constitution. These are not U.S. Citizens. They were captured during war. They should be given a fair trial, but it should be a military tribunal.

 

[top gun]

You guys are so caught up in the right and the left that you're missing the point. If they admit the evidence collected outside the acceptable limits in the constitution then it will make those civil liberties null and void going forward. This isn't' just about the confessions.

Doesn't it scare any of you to live in a country that will no longer have Miranda, chain of evidence, and illegal search and seizure as a protections? This is what will happen if they admit almost all of the evidence and if they don't then their is little to convict them on and they will look railroaded. You say they have ton's of evidence, but think how it was gathered. These people didn't live in the U.S., so what judge OKed a search warrant for their Afghanistan hut.

Please get a grip. Stop focusing on Bush and Obama and focus on the constitution. These are not U.S. Citizens. They were captured during war. They should be given a fair trial, but it should be a military tribunal.

I "have a grip". Now how bout you stop carrying water for TORTURERS.

The fact is that we have evidence outside of all the misdeeds of the Bush administration. If we didn't they wouldn't go this route. But if they can go this route then it helps clarify to the world that what we have said was true about these thugs. This is the old lawyer creed: Never ask a question that you don't already know the answer to. And that's the type of prosecution this is.

Let's do this. You and I have a bet right now. I'll bet you that I'll get on this blog and call you THE BEST, MOST INTELLIGENT, GREATEST PERSON EVER TO POST ON THIS FORUM if Miranda rights are thrown out for Americans because we Federally prosecuted these terrorists. That's what you said.

Now all you have to do is agree to do the same for me if you are wrong to prove you believe what you post.

I await your acceptance...

 

[laughinatreps]

Can someone explain to me why, when we tried Moussaoui, the "20th hijacker", in US FEDERAL COURT IN ALEXANDRIA VIRGINIA, it was considered by republicans to be:

"A statesmanlike decision by the Bush administration"

Yet now that we have a Democratic president, it has become:

"a political decision by this administration"


How two faced can you be? and they wonder why no one listens to them.....

No wonder only 20% of America "claims" to be republican.......

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_10/020541.php

ONE IN FIVE.... Perhaps the most striking result in the Washington Post/ABC News poll released yesterday had to do with the relative size of the parties: "Only 20 percent of adults identify themselves as Republicans, little changed in recent months, but still the lowest single number in Post-ABC polls since 1983."

Newt Gingrich was asked about the number, and blasted the poll. ABC News polling director Gary Langer had a compelling response.

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich had some pretty harsh criticism of our latest poll today, charging in a radio interview that it was "deliberately rigged." He's entitled, of course, to his opinion. But not to a distortion of the facts.

What's his gripe? Gingrich made the comment on our Salt Lake City affiliate, KSL-AM, when asked about our finding that only 20 percent of Americans now identify themselves as Republicans, the fewest since September 1983 in ABC News/Washington Post polls. His reply:

"Well, it tells me first of all that the poll's almost certainly wrong. It's fundamentally different from Rasmussen. It's fundamentally different from Zogby. It's fundamentally different from Gallup. It's a typical Washington Post effort to slant the world in favor of liberal Democrats."

We've heard it before, from both sides: Democrats jump on data they don't like, Republicans do the same. The reality is that this poll, as all our work, was produced independently and with great care, including the highest possible methodological standards. And contrary to Gingrich, it happens to be in accord with most other recent good-quality surveys measuring political partisanship.

And that's really the key here. The latest CBS News poll found 22% identify themselves as Republicans. The latest AP poll found 21%. Ipsos/McClatchy put the number at 19%. Gallup had the highest total for the GOP, at 27%, but the Pew Forum study had it at 23%, while NBC/WSJ found 18%.

Typical republicans
Do as I say, not as I do......

 

[Pandora]

Can someone explain to me why, when we tried Moussaoui, the "20th hijacker", in US FEDERAL COURT IN ALEXANDRIA VIRGINIA, it was considered by republicans to be:

"A statesmanlike decision by the Bush administration"

Yet now that we have a Democratic president, it has become:

"a political decision by this administration"


How two faced can you be? and they wonder why no one listens to them.....

No wonder only 20% of America "claims" to be republican.......

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_10/020541.php



Typical republicans
Do as I say, not as I do......

He would have been caught in the states, given maranda rights and all the rules the states go by they would have followed.

These other guys were caught in the middle east, no rights were given. At least one of them were water boarded. That guy will get off even though he cut off Danny Pearls head just for the waterboarding. Evidence would no way have been collected the way it would be done in the states.

The two cases are really differnt

 

[TheFranklinParty]

He would have been caught in the states, given maranda rights and all the rules the states go by they would have followed.

These other guys were caught in the middle east, no rights were given. At least one of them were water boarded. That guy will get off even though he cut off Danny Pearls head just for the waterboarding. Evidence would no way have been collected the way it would be done in the states.

The two cases are really differnt

Thanks Pandora...you beat me to answering that one. Most people just don't get the distinction. These guys were captured during war! You wouldn't have brought the Emperor of Japan to NYC to stand trial in a U.S. Federal Court for bombing Pearl Harbor?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

They where captured in war, so no they should not have civilan trials!

No they where terrorist, they should not be POW's


Torture is good, we need to do it to protect America....

No you can't what if they bring up the fact they where tortured and they can't use that evidence because evidence under torture is not valid!

We Declare, war , but are fighting no one so no POWs'
Terrorism is a crime....but not one we can't prove in court

we don't want to elevate them in a civilian court...we want to treat them like US Military instead...


to bad the right can't make up there mind, and just hope we can leave them in some magic bubble of no rights , no trials, no evidence needed...

 

[TheFranklinParty]

I "have a grip". Now how bout you stop carrying water for TORTURERS.

The fact is that we have evidence outside of all the misdeeds of the Bush administration. If we didn't they wouldn't go this route. But if they can go this route then it helps clarify to the world that what we have said was true about these thugs. This is the old lawyer creed: Never ask a question that you don't already know the answer to. And that's the type of prosecution this is.

Let's do this. You and I have a bet right now. I'll bet you that I'll get on this blog and call you THE BEST, MOST INTELLIGENT, GREATEST PERSON EVER TO POST ON THIS FORUM if Miranda rights are thrown out for Americans because we Federally prosecuted these terrorists. That's what you said.

Now all you have to do is agree to do the same for me if you are wrong to prove you believe what you post.

I await your acceptance...

I'll take the bet...the problem is how will we know who wins? The Patriot Act has already smudged the line. On top of that, the scar created by this won't show up immediately. It will come about over time as the law is challenged over and over again. Prosecutors will test the line until it eventually gets decided by the Supreme Court.

I also don't need someone else's public acknowledgment. I'm just trying to make people aware that there is more at risk than a political jousting match. You guys want to play, "I hate your President more" and Your President is dumber than my President", while a few of us are attempting to point out the dangers of making decisions for political reasons alone.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Thanks Pandora...you beat me to answering that one. Most people just don't get the distinction. These guys were captured during war! You wouldn't have brought the Emperor of Japan to NYC to stand trial in a U.S. Federal Court for bombing Pearl Harbor?

yes, there where no trails after WWII! none at all. outside those large amounts of trails we held .....