Need a conspiracy theory debunked?

[Dave]

This site debunks just about all of the 9/11 myths, urban legends, and foreign misinformation. I can think of a few people right off that would do well to browse some of the pages on here, but of course they won't believe it since its coming from the State Department. Still a lot of good facts presented here.

http://usinfo.state.gov/media/misinformation.html

[palerider]

This site debunks just about all of the 9/11 myths, urban legends, and foreign misinformation. I can think of a few people right off that would do well to browse some of the pages on here, but of course they won't believe it since its coming from the State Department. Still a lot of good facts presented here.

http://usinfo.state.gov/media/misinformation.html

Yeah, conspiracy theorists are loathe to give up their conspiracies, even when there is plenty of credible information to debunk them. For some, conspiracies may be the only faith they have.

[n0spam4me]

Question:

Why do you expect to get coherant results out of chaotic events?

+ fact, Pictures and video trump eye witnesses in court.

Why would the Bush regime steal and hide the video recording from the Virginia DOT traffic cam? The camera in a prime location to capture a pix of the "757" on its way to the PENTAGON.

Its Dim
Jed
..................

[USMC the Almighty]

Question:

Why do you expect to get coherant results out of chaotic events?

+ fact, Pictures and video trump eye witnesses in court.

Why would the Bush regime steal and hide the video recording from the Virginia DOT traffic cam? The camera in a prime location to capture a pix of the "757" on its way to the PENTAGON.

Its Dim
Jed
..................

Spam, if I showed you a video of the plane hitting the Pentagon -- would you abandon your juvenile conspiracy theory?

[vyo476]

Spam, if I showed you a video of the plane hitting the Pentagon -- would you abandon your juvenile conspiracy theory?

If I had five bucks I'd bet that he'd say no or find some other way to weasel out of it. I hate being broke.

[Dave]

Question:

Why do you expect to get coherant results out of chaotic events?

+ fact, Pictures and video trump eye witnesses in court.

Why would the Bush regime steal and hide the video recording from the Virginia DOT traffic cam? The camera in a prime location to capture a pix of the "757" on its way to the PENTAGON.

Its Dim
Jed
..................

It seems to be that the conspiracy theorists are the ones that are expecting something coherant out of chaotic events. All I ever hear from the 9/11 conspiracy guys is that the towers didn't collapse in the manner that they should if a plane hit them. By your own statement, chaotic events don't produce a predictable outcome, so their entire point is not valid.

Want video? The FBI released most of the videos they seized on 9/11 and every video out there that actually shows the attack shows Flight 77 smashing into the Pentagon. I'm not sure which Virginia DOT video you are referring to, but the FBI has released video taken from the Doubletree Hotel, and from a Gas Station that everyone claims would have been in perfect position to tape the crash. Neither video showed any footage of the impact.

[Rokerijdude11]

The website lists Depleted Uranium as a "Mis-information"

No wonder ...

Un real how gullable so many really are

[Dave]

Un real how gullable so many really are

I was just thinking the same thing about you. Did you even look at the facts about DU? If so, would you care to refute anything that was posted on there? Or do you want to do what you usually do and throw around baseless claims until youve been beaten in a debate and are forced to resort to childish name calling?

[vyo476]

I was just thinking the same thing about you. Did you even look at the facts about DU? If so, would you care to refute anything that was posted on there? Or do you want to do what you usually do and throw around baseless claims until youve been beaten in a debate and are forced to resort to childish name calling?

Did you have to bring up the name calling thing again?

[Rokerijdude11]

You will pardon me,as i Dismiss the information provided.Why is it that you or anyone else would expect us readers to believ the US GOVT. on this issue? when they are the ones who are responsible for this calamity? of course they deny its a problem if they admitted it there would be congressional hearings reperations to soldiers soldiers families and soldiers newborn children

as well as reperations to all of those whose contries we have largely polluted with this deadly by-product.....No sir i am not inclined to believe those who are behind the mess sorry

maybe if im bored later ill counter ALL of the federal governments lies

[Rokerijdude11]

Dave just wants to perpetuate the issue

[Dave]

You will pardon me,as i Dismiss the information provided.Why is it that you or anyone else would expect us readers to believ the US GOVT. on this issue? when they are the ones who are responsible for this calamity? of course they deny its a problem if they admitted it there would be congressional hearings reperations to soldiers soldiers families and soldiers newborn children

as well as reperations to all of those whose contries we have largely polluted with this deadly by-product.....No sir i am not inclined to believe those who are behind the mess sorry

maybe if im bored later ill counter ALL of the federal governments lies

If the government says it then it must be a lie. right.....

If its such an obvious lie, then show me something that proves its a lie. The State Department site offers sources from medical studies done on DU which prove that it is not a problem. What scientific studes have you offered to back up your opinions?

[r0beph]

You will pardon me,as i Dismiss the information provided.Why is it that you or anyone else would expect us readers to believ the US GOVT. on this issue? when they are the ones who are responsible for this calamity? of course they deny its a problem if they admitted it there would be congressional hearings reperations to soldiers soldiers families and soldiers newborn children

as well as reperations to all of those whose contries we have largely polluted with this deadly by-product.....No sir i am not inclined to believe those who are behind the mess sorry

maybe if im bored later ill counter ALL of the federal governments lies

If you do choose to counter anything, please DO NOT BRING that negative proof inferrance crap to the table. It really annoys me :'( and it makes baby chuck cry.

[vyo476]

You want to see something terrifying? Look up "Timothy McVeigh" on Youtube and look at all the videos that call him a martyr or a hero. There are a TON of them. Scary, no?

[r0beph]

Meh. Anyone who thinks murder can further any cause is a moron.

[vyo476]

Meh. Anyone who thinks murder can further any cause is a moron.

I agree. The scary part is that so many people actually think of him in that way.

[Rokerijdude11]

If the government says it then it must be a lie. right.....

If its such an obvious lie, then show me something that proves its a lie. The State Department site offers sources from medical studies done on DU which prove that it is not a problem. What scientific studes have you offered to back up your opinions?

Only in this case...i take them on a case by case basis .
I am not of the opinion EVERYTHING the government does
Is a Lie. but the effects of D.U. have been well documented .they are denying the magnitude of the problem and are trying to minimize in order to save face and cash

thats my opinion and im sticking by it...

[Rokerijdude11]

If you do choose to counter anything, please DO NOT BRING that negative proof inferrance crap to the table. It really annoys me :'( and it makes baby chuck cry.

Dont read it then?

[vyo476]

Dont read it then?

Is that how you deal with things you don't like? Ignoring them?

R0beph just wants you not to use those tactics because they are inherently flawed. That's fairly common knowledge and it'd be a waste of everyone's time to take the time to debunk them when we all know that that is exactly what the end result would be.

[Rokerijdude11]

Is that how you deal with things you don't like? Ignoring them?

R0beph just wants you not to use those tactics because they are inherently flawed. That's fairly common knowledge and it'd be a waste of everyone's time to take the time to debunk them when we all know that that is exactly what the end result would be.

Ok then thats fabulous thanks for the pep talk have a nice evening

[Dave]

Only in this case...i take them on a case by case basis .
I am not of the opinion EVERYTHING the government does
Is a Lie. but the effects of D.U. have been well documented .they are denying the magnitude of the problem and are trying to minimize in order to save face and cash

thats my opinion and im sticking by it...

You are right, the effects of DU have been well documented, and there is no proof of it causing one single death. Take a look at the link I posted, all the evidence is right there.

[Rokerijdude11]

Agree to dis-agree ...........neither of us will change the others mind so why throw mud?

[Dave]

Agree to dis-agree ...........neither of us will change the others mind so why throw mud?

Who is throwing mud? I'm just trying to have a debate. Isn't that why we've all come to this site?

[Rokerijdude11]

No deaths Just gross disfigurements and inexplicable illness

[ArmChair General]

No deaths Just gross disfigurements and inexplicable illness

theres been deaths. But just like Agent Orange, the government refuses to investigate and conduct research.

So, no officially reported deaths.

[Dave]

theres been deaths. But just like Agent Orange, the government refuses to investigate and conduct research.

So, no officially reported deaths.

So I guess you wouldn't mind giving us a few names, or any medical reports saying that these people died from excessive doses of radiation, or cancer related to exposure to radioactive material.

[Dave]

No deaths Just gross disfigurements and inexplicable illness

any proof of this?

[ArmChair General]

So I guess you wouldn't mind giving us a few names, or any medical reports saying that these people died from excessive doses of radiation, or cancer related to exposure to radioactive material.

You obviously don't know jack about DU. People exposed, don't die from the Radiation. MOnths or Years later, they have babies born dead, or retarded and or deformed, that is if they aren't sterile from the exposure, years later they may develop various health problems and die.

Its not like they get exposed and right away are sick.

[Dave]

You obviously don't know jack about DU. People exposed, don't die from the Radiation. MOnths or Years later, they have babies born dead, or retarded and or deformed, that is if they aren't sterile from the exposure, years later they may develop various health problems and die.

Its not like they get exposed and right away are sick.

I asked for names and medical reports. In other words, I need proof. I'm not expecting the people to die, I'm just saying that there should be records of leukemia, bone cancer, lung cancer, or something. In fact, in the case of the 20 veterans that recieved shrapnel from depleted uranium rounds in the first Gulf War, none of these conditions were ever reported. Some of them even had shrapnel containing DU up to 20mm in their bodies. A study of these veterans, "Elevated Urine Uranium Excretion by Soldiers with Retained Uranium Shrapnel," published in the November 1999 issue of Health Physics concluded, "there is no evidence of adverse clinical outcomes associated with uranium exposure at this time in any of these individuals." Pretty convincing stuff.

[ArmChair General]

I asked for names and medical reports. In other words, I need proof. I'm not expecting the people to die, I'm just saying that there should be records of leukemia, bone cancer, lung cancer, or something. In fact, in the case of the 20 veterans that recieved shrapnel from depleted uranium rounds in the first Gulf War, none of these conditions were ever reported. Some of them even had shrapnel containing DU up to 20mm in their bodies. A study of these veterans, "Elevated Urine Uranium Excretion by Soldiers with Retained Uranium Shrapnel," published in the November 1999 issue of Health Physics concluded, "there is no evidence of adverse clinical outcomes associated with uranium exposure at this time in any of these individuals." Pretty convincing stuff.

i suppose you need names and medical reports to prove that Agent Orange is both deadly and harmful too huh?

[Dave]

i suppose you need names and medical reports to prove that Agent Orange is both deadly and harmful too huh?

Well, I've actually seen medical reports about 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-para-dioxin(TCDD). The National Toxicology Program has classified TCDD to be a human carcinogen. I haven't seen any such reports about depleted uranium.

[ArmChair General]

OK first of all, not even the government is claiming that DU is not harmful, except you??

The debate rages about wether or not its harmful in the supposed low doses that humans are exposed to, either through a contaminated environment..or inhalation, or combat..etc.

The effects of DU on lab animals for instance, are well documented.

[Dave]

I'm not claiming that is not harmless either. When you inject relatively large doses into the body, of course it is going to produce harmfull effects, but DU is not a health hazard unless it is taken into the body in large doses. The alpha particle of depleted uranium only travels a few centimeters and can be stopped by a sheet of paper, so unless its inside your body, it can't hurt you unless you spend a day rolling around naked in a pile of the stuff.

You are right about the effects of DU on animals being well documented, and the findings seem to support what I've been saying. In rats that have been given doses of DU equal to that found in the 20 Gulf War veterans I mentioned earlier, the most signifigant effect was slight weight loss. Only when given very high doses of DU (5X higher than any reported in Gulf War veterans) did the rats show reduction of nueronal activity in the hippocampus. The study clearly showed that DU cannot be responsible for the things conspiracy nuts claim it to be.

[r0beph]

The specific activity (SA) of a uranium compound depends on its
isotopic composition. The SA of natural uranium (containing
0.72% uranium-235) is 6.77×10^-7 curies per gram (Ci/g).

For depleted uranium (uranium-235 containing less than 0.72%):
SA = 3.6 × 10-7 Ci/g

For enriched uranium (uranium-235 containing more than 0.72%):
SA = {0.4 + 0.38(enrichment) + 0.0034(enrichment)2}×10^-6 Ci/g,
where enrichment is the percent uranium-235.

Thus, the SA of depleted uranium is approximately half that of
natural uranium. (To express SA in standard international units,
multiply the value in Ci/g by 3.7 × 10^10 becquerels /Ci.)
^^^I'm not so sure that it's that much less active than uranium. At least not to the point that a sheet of paper can stop the radioactive emissions. That being said, the main danger comes from breathing the dust (which I imagine forms quite readily when you are using something as a kinetic weapon. just doesn't seem that safe to me. I'd really not want to live near any place that was littered with tons of the stuff.

http://www.ead.anl.gov/pub/doc/u-depleted.pdf

good times, I definitely wouldn't want to breathe any DU oxide, that's for sure. I mean that government data on DU doesn't make it sound safe at all. the U-235, though a rather small content, is very readily fissionable. Gamma rays for all,
http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/news_images/1343_3383_1.jpg
The hulk supports the use of Depleted Uranium.




On that note, small bricks of uranium are great paperweights.
Once at the airport where my old roommates dad worked, they had this small box with a uranium cube that was appx. 1 sq. ft. we couldn't lift it. That stuff is crazy heavy.


------edit

also from that pdf

depleted uranium was ultimately selected because of its very high density, availability,
noncompetitive uses, and [B]pyrophoricity (spontaneous combustion upon exposure to air).
~
(ref; a10 30mm shells) As much as 70% of a depleted uranium
penetrator can be aerosolized when it strikes a tank.
~
Aerosols containing uranium oxides may contaminate
the area downwind. Uranium metal and oxide fragments may also contaminate the soil around the struck
vehicle. Tests of depleted uranium penetrators striking depleted uranium armored vehicles have shown that
most of the contamination will occur within 5 to 7 meters (16 to 23 feet) of the vehicle

I'm sure this is where the safety worries come into play.

[ArmChair General]

I'm not claiming that is not harmless either. When you inject relatively large doses into the body, of course it is going to produce harmfull effects, but DU is not a health hazard unless it is taken into the body in large doses. The alpha particle of depleted uranium only travels a few centimeters and can be stopped by a sheet of paper, so unless its inside your body, it can't hurt you unless you spend a day rolling around naked in a pile of the stuff.

You are right about the effects of DU on animals being well documented, and the findings seem to support what I've been saying. In rats that have been given doses of DU equal to that found in the 20 Gulf War veterans I mentioned earlier, the most signifigant effect was slight weight loss. Only when given very high doses of DU (5X higher than any reported in Gulf War veterans) did the rats show reduction of nueronal activity in the hippocampus. The study clearly showed that DU cannot be responsible for the things conspiracy nuts claim it to be.


the study your talking about was only a 6 month study. It also observed that it takes a lot less Uranium than previously thought to damage the brain.

There have also been other studys done showing that veterans with internally retained DU fragments might be more exposed to cancer and leukemia risks.

And even more studys document the damaging effects of uranium assumption on the reproductive cycle (reduced fertility, miscarriages, abortions, congenital defects at birth) of small laboratory mammals (mice, hamsters)...




The U.S. Army has commissioned some research into risks and harms of depleted uranium. Scientific documents produced by the Armed Forces Radiobiology Research Institute write of the "numerous unanswered questions about its [of DU] long term health effects", state that "moderate exposure to either DU or uranium presents a significant toxicological threat" [34] and strongly suggest "low dose DU induced carcinogenesis" which might affect military personnel following shrapnel wounds or inhalation [35]. The above mentioned research projects, in particular, focus on finding in advance complete toxicologic information for possible replacement materials for depleted uranium in projectiles, such as tungsten alloys, and on developing drugs capable of suppressing the biochemical process by which DU supposedly generates tumoral forms in the human body. The same institution is also working on methods allowing a more rapid and efficient detection of uranium contamination in human beings [36] and has developed a standardized procedure for medical assistance to military personnel exposed to depleted uranium contamination. [37]



You should also take a look at the stats from Iraq:

Following the first gulf war, scientists at the Basra hospital and university have monitored the incidence of leukaemias and other malignancies among children in the Basra area, and of congenital malformations in newborn children. The data for the period 1990-2001 show an incidence increase of 426% for general malignancies, 366% for leukemias and of over 600% for birth defects, with all series showing a roughly increasing pattern with time. These data, being the largest set of epidemiological data available for the Iraqi population, have received considerable attention; and since it reported a very large increase in those pathologies which are known or strongly suspected to be related to uranium poisoning, it has been natural to consider the possibility that such increase had indeed been caused by depleted uranium contamination. The connection, however, is far from being obvious or proven: first of all, there is a considerable delay (at least ten years) between the occurrence of contaminations and the peak of incidence of malformations and malignancies, which leads to speculative hypotheses about the process of accumulation of uranium in the human body; and secondarily, there could be other causes or concurrent causes, for example different kinds of pollution related or unrelated to the war (e.g. burning oil wells), or the 1990-2003 Iraq sanctions which led to a collapse of the Iraqi economy and in general to a dramatic impoverishment of the population with a sharp decrease of nutritional and hygienic conditions (which alone, however, cannot explain why the increase in congenital defects is the highest observed). In general, the prevailing scientific view on the matter [26],[27],[28] is that such data, and other scarce data available, do not conclusively prove a poisoning effect of depleted uranium; but that the possibility exists and cannot be ruled out either, and so a precautionary principle would suggest to suspend the use of such weapons.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/87/Basrah_birth_defects.gif


It must be real easy to just dismiss something like this as a conspiracy theory. I guess that makes it easier for you to just close your eyes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_syndrome

In 2001, a study was published in Military Medicine that found DU in the urine of Gulf War veterans [8]. Another study, published by Health Physics in 2004, also showed DU in the urine of Gulf War veterans [9]. A study of UK veterans who thought they might have been exposed to DU showed aberrations in their white blood cell chromosomes. [10] Mice immune cells exposed to uranium exhibit abnormalities [11].

Increases in the rate of birth defects for children born to Gulf War veterans have been reported. A 2001 survey of 15,000 U.S. Gulf War combat veterans and 15,000 control veterans found that the Gulf War veterans were 1.8 (fathers) to 2.8 (mothers) times as likely to report having children with birth defects [12]. In early 2004, the UK Pensions Appeal Tribunal Service attributed birth defect claims from a February 1991 Gulf War combat veteran to depleted uranium poisoning [37] [38].

In 2005, uranium metalworkers at a Bethlehem plant near Buffalo, New York, exposed to frequent occupational uranium inhalation risks, were alleged by non-scientific sources to have the same patterns of symptoms and illness as Gulf War Syndrome victims [39] [40].


In November, 2004, the anonymously-funded British inquiry headed by Lord Lloyd ([45]) concluded, for the first time, that thousands of UK and US Gulf War veterans were made ill by their service. The report claimed that Gulf veterans were twice as likely to suffer from ill health than if they had been deployed elsewhere, and that the illnesses suffered were the result of a combination of causes. These included multiple injections of vaccines, the use of organophosphate pesticides to spray tents, low level exposure to nerve gas, and the inhalation of depleted uranium dust. [46][47] The report was the first to suggest a direct link between military service in the Persian Gulf and illnesses suffered by veterans of that war and directly contradicts other theories which have suggested GWI is not a physical illness, but a response to the stresses of war.

Although not identifying Gulf War syndrome by name, in June of 2003 the High Court of England and Wales upheld a claim by Shaun Rusling that the depression, eczema, fatigue, nausea and breathing problems that he experienced after returning from the Gulf War were attributed to his military service.

A 2004 British study comparing 24,000 Gulf War veterans to a control group of 18,000 men found that those who had taken part in the Gulf war have lower fertility and are 40 to 50% more likely to be unable to start a pregnancy. Among Gulf war soldiers, failure to conceive was 2.5% vs. 1.7% in the control group, and the rate of miscarriage was 3.4% vs. 2.3%. These differences are small but statistically significant. [48]

In January 2006, a study led by Melvin Blanchard and published by the Journal of Epidemiology, part of the "National Health Survey of Gulf War-Era Veterans and Their Families", stated that veterans deployed in the Persian Gulf War had nearly twice the prevalence of chronic multisymptom illness (CMI), a cluster of symptoms similar to a set of conditions often called Gulf War Syndrome. [49]



Its certainly more than just a stupid conspiracy theory dont you think?

[Dave]

The stats from Iraq can easily be explained by the use of chemical weapons on civilians by your good buddy Saddam. The chemicals he used on the Kurds are known human carcinogens. The same cannot be said for depleted uranium.

As I said before, there have been no studies that have conclusively linked low doses of depleted uranium to any adverse side effect. Until you can produce medical proof, you have no case.

[Rokerijdude11]

The stats from Iraq can easily be explained by the use of chemical weapons on civilians by your good buddy Saddam.
thats a stretch and what of Afghanistan then?.........or how about KOSOVO

The chemicals he used on the Kurds are known human carcinogens. The same cannot be said for depleted uranium.
Oh i see your angle now, a technicality debate .....ok so it isnt a proven carcinogen.... I suppose that, and the US Govrnments claims combined, are enough evidence to suggest that DU is harmless.... we all should have no worries.....sorry, i cant and dont agree with that line of logic...but your always welcomed to your opinion

As I said before, there have been no studies that have conclusively linked low doses of depleted uranium to any adverse side effect. Until you can produce medical proof, you have no case.

well that is in large because the areas where the DU is the most prevalent are still in the throes of war.The countries involved are far to busy trying to stay solvent to effect any type of major study at this time ...the DU has been an issue since 2002 its 2007 only five years have passed


Barely enough time to get into a REAL study of the effects .and with all of those Bullets, and Bombs, continuing to drop all over the place, im SURE its not a priority.....and as i say, In my Opinion the FEDS are covering it up? so why would they bother to do a REAL study, when they can rely on these MINI studies, like the 6 month one you pointed too? I mean the people seem to believe them at face....why bother right?[/b][/color]

[9sublime]

You obviously don't know jack about DU. People exposed, don't die from the Radiation. MOnths or Years later, they have babies born dead, or retarded and or deformed, that is if they aren't sterile from the exposure, years later they may develop various health problems and die.

Its not like they get exposed and right away are sick.

Actually very severe radiation could do just that.

[ArmChair General]

Actually very severe radiation could do just that.

Hey look everyone, detective dip**** is on the case. Pointing out the severely obvious.

[Dave]

well that is in large because the areas where the DU is the most prevalent are still in the throes of war.The countries involved are far to busy trying to stay solvent to effect any type of major study at this time ...the DU has been an issue since 2002 its 2007 only five years have passed


Barely enough time to get into a REAL study of the effects .and with all of those Bullets, and Bombs, continuing to drop all over the place, im SURE its not a priority.....and as i say, In my Opinion the FEDS are covering it up? so why would they bother to do a REAL study, when they can rely on these MINI studies, like the 6 month one you pointed too? I mean the people seem to believe them at face....why bother right?[/b][/color]

It would be a stretch for cancer in Afghanistan or Kosovo, if there were actually substantial increases in medical problems related to radiation in those countries, which there are not. And while we're on the subject, if DU caused cancer, we should be seeing its effects in every region that has seen any military action by any NATO nation, but we have not. Do I really have to keep saying that you have to provide medical evidence to make a case? Or are you going to keep throwing speculations at me?

[Rokerijdude11]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20060503&articleId=2374


Dr. Jawad Al-Ali (55), director of the Oncology Center at the largest hospital in Basra, Iraq stated, at a recent ( 2003) conference in Japan:

"Two strange phenomena have come about in Basra which I have never seen before. The first is double and triple cancers in one patient. For example, leukemia and cancer of the stomach. We had one patient with 2 cancers - one in his stomach and kidney. Months later, primary cancer was developing in his other kidney--he had three different cancer types. The second is the clustering of cancer in families. We have 58 families here with more than one person affected by cancer. Dr Yasin, a general Surgeon here has two uncles, a sister and cousin affected with cancer. Dr Mazen, another specialist, has six family members suffering from cancer. My wife has nine members of her family with cancer".

"Children in particular are susceptible to DU poisoning. They have a much higher absorption rate as their blood is being used to build and nourish their bones and they have a lot of soft tissues. Bone cancer and leukemia used to be diseases affecting them the most, however, cancer of the lymph system which can develop anywhere on the body, and has rarely been seen before the age of 12 is now also common.",


====================



Dr. Keith Baverstock, The World Health Organization's chief expert on radiation and health for 11 years and author of an unpublished study has charged that his report " on the cancer risk to civilians in Iraq from breathing uranium contaminated dust " was also deliberately suppressed.

The information released by the U.S. Dept. of Defense is not reliable, according to some sources even within the military.

In 1997, while citing experiments, by others, in which 84 percent of dogs exposed to inhaled uranium died of cancer of the lungs, Dr. Asaf Durakovic, then Professor of Radiology and Nuclear Medicine at Georgetown University in Washington was quoted as saying,

"The [US government's] Veterans Administration asked me to lie about the risks of incorporating depleted uranium in the human body."


At that time Dr. Durakovic was a colonel in the U.S. Army. He has since left the military, to found the Uranium Medical Research Center, a privately funded organization with headquarters in Canada.


================

Doug Rokke, U.S. Army contractor who headed a clean-up of depleted uranium after the first Gulf War states:,

"Depleted uranium is a crime against God and humanity."

Rokke's own crew, a hundred employees, was devastated by exposure to the fine dust. He stated:

"When we went to the Gulf, we were all really healthy,"

After performing clean-up operations in the desert (mistakenly without protective gear), 30 members of his staff died, and most others"including Rokke himself"developed serious health problems. Rokke now has reactive airway disease, neurological damage, cataracts, and kidney problems.

"We warned the Department of Defense in 1991 after the Gulf War. Their arrogance is beyond comprehension.


Yet the D.O.D still insists such ingestion is "not sufficient to make troops seriously ill in most cases."

Then why did it make the clean up crew seriously or terminally ill in nearly all cases?

Marion Falk, a retired chemical physicist who built nuclear bombs for more than 20 years at Lawrence Livermore Lab, was asked if he thought that DU weapons operate in a similar manner as a dirty bomb.

"That's exactly what they are. They fit the description of a dirty bomb in every way."

According to Falk, more than 30 percent of the DU fired from the cannons of U.S. tanks is reduced to particles one-tenth of a micron (one millionth of a meter) in size or smaller on impact. "The larger the bang" the greater the amount of DU that is dispersed into the atmosphere, Falk said. With the larger missiles and bombs, nearly 100 percent of the DU is reduced to radioactive dust particles of the "micron size" or smaller, he said.

When asked if the main purpose for using it was for destroying things and killing people, Falk was more specific:

"I would say that it is the perfect weapon for killing lots of people."


When a DU round or bomb strikes a hard target, most of its kinetic energy is converted to heat " sufficient heat to ignite the DU. From 40% to 70% of the DU is converted to extremely fine dust particles of ceramic uranium oxide (primarily dioxide, though other formulations also occur). Over 60% of these particles are smaller than 5 microns in diameter, about the same size as the cigarette ash particles in cigarette smoke and therefore respirable.

Because conditions are so chaotic in Iraq, the medical infrastructure has been greatly compromised. In terms of both cancer and birth defects due to DU, only a small fraction of the cases are being reported.

Doctors in southern Iraq are making comparisons to the birth defects that followed the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in WWII. They have numerous photos of infants born without brains, with their internal organs outside their bodies, without sexual organs, without spines, and the list of deformities goes on an on. Such birth defects were extremely rare in Iraq prior to the large scale use of DU. Weapons. Now they are commonplace. In hospitals across Iraq, the mothers are no longer asking, "Doctor, is it a boy or girl?" but rather, "Doctor, is it normal?" The photos are horrendous, they can be viewed on the following website

[Rokerijdude11]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20060503&articleId=2374


Not only are we poisoning the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, but we are making a concerted effort to keep out specialists from other countries who can help. The U.S. Military doesn"t want the rest of the world to find out what we have done.

Such relatively swift development of cancers has been reported by doctors in hospitals treating civilians following NATO bombing with DU in Yugoslavia in 1998-1999 and the US military invasion of Iraq using DU for the first time in 1991. Medical experts report that this phenomenon of multiple malignancies from unrelated causes has been unknown until now and is a new syndrome associated with internal DU exposure.
Just 467 US personnel were wounded in the three-week Persian Gulf War in 1990-1991. Out of 580,400 soldiers who served in Gulf War I, 11,000 are dead, and by 2000 there were 325,000 on permanent medical disability. This astounding number of disabled vets means that a decade later, 56 percent of those soldiers who served in the first Gulf War now have medical problems.

Although not reported in the mainstream American press, a recent Tokyo tribunal, guided by the principles of International Criminal Law and International Humanitarian Law, found President George W. Bush guilty of war crimes. On March 14, 2004, Nao Shimoyachi, reported in The Japan Times that President Bush was found guilty "for attacking civilians with indiscriminate weapons and other arms,"and the "tribunal also issued recommendations for banning Depleted Uranium shells and other weapons that indiscriminately harm people." Although this was a "Citizen's Court" having no legal authority, the participants were sincere in their determination that international laws have been violated and a war crimes conviction is warranted.

Troops involved in actual combat are not the only servicemen reporting symptoms. Four soldiers from a New York Army National Guard company serving in Iraq are among several members of the same company, the 442nd Military Police, who say they have been battling persistent physical ailments that began last summer in the Iraqi town of Samawah.

"I got sick instantly in June," said Staff Sgt. Ray Ramos, a Brooklyn housing cop. "My health kept going downhill with daily headaches, constant numbness in my hands and rashes on my stomach."

Dr. Asaf Durakovic, UMRC founder, and nuclear medicine expert examined and tested nine soldiers from the company says that four "almost certainly" inhaled radioactive dust from exploded American shells manufactured with depleted uranium. Laboratory tests revealed traces of two manmade forms of uranium in urine samples from four of the soldiers.

[Rokerijdude11]

http://www.sierratimes.com/03/05/02/article_io.htm

Dr. Asaf Durakovic, a professor of nuclear medicine at Georgetown University, is a former army medical expert. He told nuclear scientists in Paris last year that tens of thousands of sick British and American soldiers are now dying from radiation they encountered during Gulf War I. He found that 62 percent of sick vets tested have uranium isotopes in their organs, bones, brains and urine.(14) Laboratories in Switzerland and Finland corroborated his findings.

In other studies, some sick vets were found to be expressing uranium in even their semen. Their sexual partners often complained of a burning sensation during intercourse, followed by their own debilitating illnesses.(15)

Nothing compares to the astronomical cancer rates and birth defects suffered by the Iraqi people who have endured vicious nuclear chastisement for years.(16) U.S. air attacks against Iraq since 1993 have undoubtedly employed nuclear munitions. Pictures of grotesquely deformed Iraqi infants born since 1991 are overwhelming.(17) Like those born to Gulf War I vets, many babies born to troops now in Iraq will also be afflicted with hideous deformities, neurological damage and/or blood and respiratory disorders.(18)



snip

================

Afghanistan's new president, Hamid Karzai, is a puppet installed by Washington. Under the protection of American soldiers, Karzai's regime is setting a new record for opium production. Both UN and U.S. reports confirm that the huge Afghani opium harvest of 2002 makes Afghanistan the world's leading opium producer.(34) Thanks to nuclear weapons, Afghanistan is now safe for the Bush-Cheney narcotics industry.(35) ABC News asserts that keeping the "peace" in Afghanistan will require decades of allied occupation.(36) For years to come, "peacekeepers" will be eating, drinking and breathing the "hot" carcinogenic pollution they have helped the Pentagon inflict upon that nation for organized crime.

snip

=============

[Dave]

As I mentioned before, Saddam Hussain put tons of known carcinogens into the soil of Iraq when he used chemical weapons on civilians. If you want to use anything from Iraq as evidence in this, youve got to first conclusively prove that any illness from Iraq was not caused by these chemicals. You have shown nothing linking depleted uranium to any health problems. You simply say soldiers go to Iraq and then they get sick. There is no logical reasoning behind blaming depleted uranium for the sickness, especially since there are tons of other carcinogens already present in the area from the past war crimes committed by Saddam Hussain.

P.S. Try getting some unbiased reports next time.

[Rokerijdude11]

As I mentioned before, Saddam Hussain put tons of known carcinogens into the soil of Iraq when he used chemical weapons on civilians.

These reports are concerning not "carcinogens" but URANIUM. And the fact that it is making soldiers and civilians sick...the Uranium is turning up in urine and other places as well and there is evidence here to suggest that The D.U. is the underlying cause

If you want to use anything from Iraq as evidence in this, youve got to first conclusively prove that any illness from Iraq was not caused by these chemicals.
Uranium........not chemicals URANIUM

You have shown nothing linking depleted uranium to any health problems. You simply say soldiers go to Iraq and then they get sick. There is no logical reasoning behind blaming depleted uranium for the sickness,
yeah i mean lets disregard theyre stories, lets disregard the fact that they are Pissing Urine, lets forget the fact that some of them are passing Uranium through theyre semen. and we can discount all the dis-figured babies they have borne as well,,,,,must just be some co-incidence eh?


especially since there are tons of other carcinogens already present in the area from the past war crimes committed by Saddam Hussain.
we arent talking about them are we? those are not what is being found in blood and urine samples and sometimes even semen samples its URANIUM.......not some other carcinogen or chemical URANIUM
P.S. Try getting some unbiased reports next time.
no more Biased than a US GOVT website huh?

[Dave]

Are you forgetting about the 20 soldiers I told you about earlier? They were the only soldiers from the Gulf War that had any depleted uranium shrapnel actually imbedded in their bodies after the war. They all showed elevated levels of uranium in their urine, yet none of them got sick. If your theories were correct, then these soldiers would have been the first to get sick, and they havent shown the first sign of any adverse health conditions. Even the articles you are posting admit that about 40% of the soldiers that are saying they are sick don't have the slightest trace of radiation in their bodies. The only logical conclussion a sane person can draw from this is that there has to be some other cause for this illness.

[r0beph]

Are you forgetting about the 20 soldiers I told you about earlier? They were the only soldiers from the Gulf War that had any depleted uranium shrapnel actually embedded in their bodies after the war. They all showed elevated levels of uranium in their urine, yet none of them got sick. If your theories were correct, then these soldiers would have been the first to get sick, and they haven't shown the first sign of any adverse health conditions. Even the articles you are posting admit that about 40% of the soldiers that are saying they are sick don't have the slightest trace of radiation in their bodies. The only logical conclusion a sane person can draw from this is that there has to be some other cause for this illness.

Shrapnel from DU is much different than inhaled Uranium oxide. The radioactivity differs a bit in the oxidized uranium as it decays more readily. Comparing a solid material embedded in tissue versus the oxidized dust collecting in the lungs is like comparing apples to orangutangs, something I don't think is very solute.

[Dave]

Shrapnel from DU is much different than inhaled Uranium oxide. The radioactivity differs a bit in the oxidized uranium as it decays more readily. Comparing a solid material embedded in tissue versus the oxidized dust collecting in the lungs is like comparing apples to orangutangs, something I don't think is very solute.

You would still expect to find something wrong with them if it was actually as hazardous as people are claiming.

[palerider]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20060503&articleId=2374

Dr. Jawad Al-Ali (55), director of the Oncology Center at the largest hospital in Basra, Iraq stated, at a recent ( 2003) conference in Japan:



WIth regard to this, you have to remember that during the time that the looting was going on, a storehouse of processed uranium was broken into and a fairly large amount was stolen by people who may or may not have understood what they were taking. Double cancers are more likely from that sort of contamination than from DU.

[Rokerijdude11]

NOt according to all the medical reports I have been reading.Aersolized or Alpha particles pose the most danger these are by products of D.U.Shells

Just as listed in Armchairs article the Dust is far more invasive and problematic than handling the Uranium itself ...even with that said based on your theory then actually handling the shells before and during a firefight would be just as harmful, or in your theories case ,MORE harmful as its being handled in its hardened form?


there are wide reports of soldiers that have gotten ill, gotten rashes etc. from exactly that just handling the hardened shells even here at home
The dangers of D.U. are well documented..

Do all people exposed to DU suffer the same illness or consequences? at this time it would be said No because some people have ingested large amounts of the alpha particles and presented Uranium in theyre sytem without complication or illness


Is this reason enough to dismiss the multitude of OTHER issue being presented.......absolutly NOT
this is an issue that will haunt the world for years
many areas have uranuium in the water tables now and many contries Uranium is present in animals



to use word of yours there is a growing body of evidence that suggests D.U> is causing a worldwide calamity as the federal govt tries to deny its danger

and to dave yeah you told us of 20 men who didnt get ill i presented you a story of 100 men 30 died and the rest are ill,after DU clean-ups

As well there are the numbers i reported to you concerning American soldiers deaths and illness from Gulf war 1 who most attribute to the widespread use of TONS of DU weapons


Just 467 US personnel were wounded in the three-week Persian Gulf War in 1990-1991. Out of 580,400 soldiers who served in Gulf War I, 11,000 are dead, and by 2000 there were 325,000 on permanent medical disability.

[Dave]

NOt according to all the medical reports I have been reading.Aersolized or Alpha particles pose the most danger these are by products of D.U.Shells

Just as listed in Armchairs article the Dust is far more invasive and problematic than handling the Uranium itself ...even with that said based on your theory then actually handling the shells before and during a firefight would be just as harmful, or in your theories case ,MORE harmful as its being handled in its hardened form?


there are wide reports of soldiers that have gotten ill, gotten rashes etc. from exactly that just handling the hardened shells even here at home
The dangers of D.U. are well documented..

Do all people exposed to DU suffer the same illness or consequences? at this time it would be said No because some people have ingested large amounts of the alpha particles and presented Uranium in theyre sytem without complication or illness


Is this reason enough to dismiss the multitude of OTHER issue being presented.......absolutly NOT
this is an issue that will haunt the world for years
many areas have uranuium in the water tables now and many contries Uranium is present in animals



to use word of yours there is a growing body of evidence that suggests D.U> is causing a worldwide calamity as the federal govt tries to deny its danger

and to dave yeah you told us of 20 men who didnt get ill i presented you a story of 100 men 30 died and the rest are ill,after DU clean-ups

As well there are the numbers i reported to you concerning American soldiers deaths and illness from Gulf war 1 who most attribute to the widespread use of TONS of DU weapons


Just 467 US personnel were wounded in the three-week Persian Gulf War in 1990-1991. Out of 580,400 soldiers who served in Gulf War I, 11,000 are dead, and by 2000 there were 325,000 on permanent medical disability.

My point is that the men that I mentioned that had shrapnel from DU all had elevated uranium levels in their urine, yet they showed no signs of illness. In the medical articles you posted, they only claim that about 60% of the people that have been sick have uranium found in their urine. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to use simple logic to determine that DU is not the problem here.
A) A lot of the people that have uranium in their systems are not sick & B) A signifigant portion of those sick do not have uranium in their urine. Therefore, uranium is not what is causing the illness.

[Rokerijdude11]

My point is that the men that I mentioned that had shrapnel from DU all had elevated uranium levels in their urine, yet they showed no signs of illness.


Yes ,and i clearly eluded to that in my response? ...i had stated that NOT all people were affected the same....... and i stated

some people have ingested large amounts of the alpha particles, and presented Uranium in theyre system, without complication or illness

In the medical articles you posted, they only claim that about 60% of the people that have been sick have uranium found in their urine.

It certainly dosent take a rocket scientist to prove that at least 60% of those people are having symptoms, the same as the other 40% and all present Uranium as a metal within theyre bodies

also being known that Uranium is Indeed a harmful substance to the human body if it werent Nuclear reactors and Nuclear fission in general would be considered completly safe and we would handle enrichining rods with our bare hands?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to use simple logic to determine that DU is not the problem here.
perhaps in your world....not mine

A) A lot of the people that have uranium in their systems are not sick &
I already said that BEFORE you posted this?

B) A signifigant portion of those sick do not have uranium in their urine.

Therefore, uranium is not what is causing the illness.
Your lumping all sickness together.very covienient Im interested in those who are ill from Uranium Poisioning and present Uranium in theyre systems thats what Im discussing. when people that havent even been to the middle east can present symptoms the same as those who are in country simply by HANDLING shells it dosent take mensa student to see the connection

[vyo476]

You know what's really funny, Roker? Your argument against DU looks almost exactly like mine against marijuana from the other thread. I mean, where's your CONCLUSIVE proof, to use your favorite phrase?

[Rokerijdude11]

I dont have it

all i have is my opinion

and some inconclusive scientific evidence

[Dave]

I dont have it

all i have is my opinion

and some inconclusive scientific evidence

Exactly. Are you willing to put the lives of our soldiers at risk by sending them out in inferior armor all on your opinions? DU is the best thing out there as far as armoring vehicles and piercing that armor, and until there is something conclusive against it, I can't see any reasoning in going with something else.

[ArmChair General]

Exactly. Are you willing to put the lives of our soldiers at risk by sending them out in inferior armor all on your opinions? DU is the best thing out there as far as armoring vehicles and piercing that armor, and until there is something conclusive against it, I can't see any reasoning in going with something else.

No, Tungsten is just as good/dense. Its just more expensive.

[Dave]

No, Tungsten is just as good/dense. Its just more expensive.

Yeah, you can use tungsten, if you want to double the defense budget. Tungsten is extremely expensive to mine and refine. Depleted uranium on the other hand, is dirt cheap. We had about 500 million pounds of the stuff laying around the last time anybody bothered to count. Its so abundant that the Defense Department gives the stuff away to munitions makers at no cost and then buys back the weapons at discount prices. Now that I think of it, doubling the defense budget might be a very conservative estimate.

[ArmChair General]

Yeah, you can use tungsten, if you want to double the defense budget. Tungsten is extremely expensive to mine and refine. Depleted uranium on the other hand, is dirt cheap. We had about 500 million pounds of the stuff laying around the last time anybody bothered to count. Its so abundant that the Defense Department gives the stuff away to munitions makers at no cost and then buys back the weapons at discount prices. Now that I think of it, doubling the defense budget might be a very conservative estimate.

heh, the Navy's already switched from DU to tungsten. I don't see Uncle Sam going broke.

When I say expensive, I mean expensive politically. People don't like to live near Uranium stockpiles, so our congress since the 80's have been figuring out ways to get rid of it. See, they dont care about US soldiers, they care about getting re-elected. Its nice to see you sprouting their propaganda though.

See the thing is, when a navy warship fires depleted uranium projectiles it creates a safety hazard because it leaves radioactive debris in the gun-mount area. Another fun fact, is that the radioactive levels near the ammunition magazines would also regularly exceed Nuclear Regulatory Commision Standards. Which in turn would require costly berthing arrangements and heavy lead shielding.

If you factor in the cost of cleanup, then its way cheaper to use Tungsten.

Of course, the Army/Marines don't have to worry about cleanup. Or they would if they would admit how hazardous the **** is.

[Dave]

heh, the Navy's already switched from DU to tungsten. I don't see Uncle Sam going broke. In fact, studys have shown that tungsten is even better than DU.

When I say expensive, I mean expensive politically. People don't like to live near Uranium stockpiles, so our congress since the 80's have been figuring out ways to get rid of it. See, they dont care about US soldiers, they care about getting re-elected. Its nice to see you sprouting their propaganda though.

See the thing is, when a navy warship fires depleted uranium projectiles it creates a safety hazard because it leaves radioactive debris in the gun-mount area. Another fun fact, is that the radioactive levels near the ammunition magazines would also regularly exceed Nuclear Regulatory Commision Standards. Which in turn would require costly berthing arrangements and heavy lead shielding.

If you factor in the cost of cleanup, then its way cheaper to use Tungsten.

Of course, the Army/Marines don't have to worry about cleanup. Or they would if they would admit how hazardous the **** is.

This may come as a suprise to you, but there is a difference between battleship mortars and M-16 5.56 rounds.

I guess you'll be wanting to pick up the bill for switching to tungsten yourself, because I don't want to have that kind of a bill hanging over my head, especially when there isn't any proof that it is needed.

[ArmChair General]

This may come as a suprise to you, but there is a difference between battleship mortars and M-16 5.56 rounds.

I guess you'll be wanting to pick up the bill for switching to tungsten yourself, because I don't want to have that kind of a bill hanging over my head, especially when there isn't any proof that it is needed.

This may come as a surprise to you, but M-16's don't fire DU rounds. Nowadays, the smallest DU round is usually 30MM. Howver, the Navy's Phalanx Weapons system use 20MM, they used to use DU, but switched to tungsten. Hardly a battleship mortar...

And no , I don't mind footing the bill for tungsten, especially since its less hazardous to American Soldiers.

But it seems you care more about money than American lives. Thats a shame.

[Dave]

Either way, you haven't proven a need for the switch. I wouldnt mind the bill if I thought the stuff was actually killing soldiers. As far as I'm concerned, there hasn't been enough evidence to prove that DU isn't working perfectly fine as it is.

[ArmChair General]

Either way, you haven't proven a need for the switch. I wouldnt mind the bill if I thought the stuff was actually killing soldiers. As far as I'm concerned, there hasn't been enough evidence to prove that DU isn't working perfectly fine as it is.

Well, at some point, someone has to recover vehicles, search bodies for intel, exploit equipment..etc.

Talk to some of them people, see what they think about DU.

[Rokerijdude11]

Either way, you haven't proven a need for the switch. I wouldnt mind the bill if I thought the stuff was actually killing soldiers. As far as I'm concerned, there hasn't been enough evidence to prove that DU isn't working perfectly fine as it is.

thats because you are BLIND to the reality and are far to attached to the Government Rhetoric

Just because i had balls to admit my position is mostly my opinion dosent take away any of the facts i presented on the issue

what a joke how can you compare a M-16 round to what we are discussing? thats the most laughable thing youve said in this thread

Nobody here discussing the DANGERS of being EXPOSED to uranium has said squat about m-16's
and as the general stated they dont use DU rounds in the M-16 or any of our small arms


the danger is when DU is inhaled in its alpha particle form where it can settle into the chest and lungs

the only part of my story i cant prove conclusivly is HOW MANY are getting sick........There is NO DISPUTING THE SCIENCE that if you inhale uranium its bad for you

when soldiers are near rounds that are hitting hard targets the cloud that ensues is filled with alpha particles

there is also NO DISPUTING that OTHERS ARE being sickened just by handling the shells..it is well documented....the other thing thats inconclusive is does everybody recieve the same effects? there simply hasnt been enough time to
find all of this out


but there is solid conclusive evidence that inhaling Uramium is harmful and there is in large part evidence showing high high rates of birth defects both in country and at home


only a fool believes this is harmless and acceptable .......we arent talking about a few puffs of marijuana here we are talking about ingesting and inhaling RADIOACTIVE heavy Metals into the human body

[Dave]

Are you even aware that we experience radioactivity every day in our lives? There's normal levels of radioactivity, and then theres enough radioactivity at the levels to make you sick, and you haven't done anything to prove that radiation from DU is enough to make someone sick. If it is, then it should be simple to find the medical evidence that it is.

[vyo476]

How did this thread wind up on depleted uranium?

No, don't answer, I don't want to know. What I would like to know is...just what the hell is "depleted uranium" anyway?

[Dave]

How did this thread wind up on depleted uranium?

No, don't answer, I don't want to know. What I would like to know is...just what the hell is "depleted uranium" anyway?

It is the metal used by the military for armor and some forms of ammunition. Rokerijdude and Armchair General claim that it is responsible for Gulf War syndrome.

[vyo476]

It is the metal used by the military for armor and some forms of ammunition. Rokerijdude and Armchair General claim that it is responsible for Gulf War syndrome.

Ah, okay. Good, another topic I know nothing about. Enjoy!

[Rokerijdude11]

Ah, okay. Good, another topic I know nothing about. Enjoy!

Where Dave, did i say It was responsible for gulf war syndrome?
I never said, or claimed that, your mistaken. Or perhaps We are back to the ole inferrance game?
what i said is...... the government is Full of it when they say D.U claims are considered Mis-information.... I have presented evidence that shows, that some people are getting sick. and presenting problems, from ingesting, or inhaling the alpha particles that are presented, when a D.U. round penetrates, or contacts a surface...


I never ONCE even started to imply that Gulfwar syndrome was caused By D.U. I clearly stated there were OTHER ilness's presenting as well...... It was YOU who was lumping ALL sickness in region to D.U. and claiming it wasnt so. Let the record stand I never claimed it did. I claimed D.U. is a harful toxic heavy metal and that it is presenting problems and contaminating water animals and people....

[ArmChair General]

Where Dave, did i say It was responsible for gulf war syndrome?
I never said, or claimed that, your mistaken. Or perhaps We are back to the ole inferrance game?
what i said is...... the government is Full of it when they say D.U claims are considered Mis-information.... I have presented evidence that shows, that some people are getting sick. and presenting problems, from ingesting, or inhaling the alpha particles that are presented, when a D.U. round penetrates, or contacts a surface...


I never ONCE even started to imply that Gulfwar syndrome was caused By D.U. I clearly stated there were OTHER ilness's presenting as well...... It was YOU who was lumping ALL sickness in region to D.U. and claiming it wasnt so. Let the record stand I never claimed it did. I claimed D.U. is a harful toxic heavy metal and that it is presenting problems and contaminating water animals and people....

yah i never said that either.

[Rokerijdude11]

Are you even aware that we experience radioactivity every day in our lives? There's normal levels of radioactivity, and then theres enough radioactivity at the levels to make you sick, and you haven't done anything to prove that radiation from DU is enough to make someone sick. If it is, then it should be simple to find the medical evidence that it is.
YES i am aware that we are exposed daily.......i am also aware that there have been documented studies where D.U. weapons have been used ,that present far far higher levels of radiation, than one should safely be exposed to. They also show far higher than acceptable concentrations in some animals and water tables ...as well it is presented in some urine at extremly high levels

I ddi present you evidence that soldiers handling D.U. rounds were sickened by high radiation levels i also presented thirty deaths related to D.U.poisioning from a de-contamination crew

as well as a myriad of birth defects both here and abroad...you are simply interested in nothing other than debate despite the evidence that is present and easily accountable

believe what you want to believe......im not interested in burying my head in the sand so to speak

there will be no agreement or any good of this "debate" as it isnt really a debate

agree to dis -agree

[Rokerijdude11]

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12903.htm


"Ingested DU particles can cause up to 1,000 times the damage of an X-ray", said Mary Olson, a nuclear waste specialist and biologist at the Nuclear Information and Resource Service in Washington D.C.

It is this difference in particle size as well as the dust's crystalline structure that make the presence of DU dust in the environment such an extreme hazard, and which differentiates its properties from that of the natural uranium dust that is ubiquitous and to which we all are exposed every day, which seldom reaches such a small size. This point is being stressed, as comparing DU particles to much larger natural ones is misleading.

The U.S. Military and its supporters regularly quote a Rand Corp. Study which uses the natural uranium inhaled by miners.

Particles smaller than 10 microns can access the innermost recesses of lung tissue where they become permanently lodged. Furthermore, if the substance is relatively insoluble, such as the ceramic DU-oxide dust produced from burning DU, it will remain in place for decades, dissolving very slowly into the bloodstream and lymphatic fluids through the course of time. Studies have identified DU in the urine of Gulf War veterans nine years after that conflict, testifying to the permanence of ceramic DU-oxide in the lungs. Thus the effects are far different from natural uranium dust, whose coarse particles are almost entirely excreted by the body within 24 hours.

The military is aware of DU's harmful effects on the human genetic code. A 2001 study of DU's effect on DNA done by Dr. Alexandra C. Miller for the Armed Forces Radiobiology Research Institute in Bethesda, Md., indicates that DU's chemical instability causes 1 million times more genetic damage than would be expected from its radiation effect alone.

Studies have shown that inhaled nano-particles are far more toxic than micro-sized particles of the same basic chemical composition. British toxicopathologist Vyvyan Howard has reported that the increased toxicity of the nano-particle is due to its size.

For example, when mice were exposed to virus-size particles of Teflon (0.13 microns) in a University of Rochester study, there were no ill effects. But when mice were exposed to nano-particles of Teflon for 15 minutes, nearly all the mice died within 4 hours.

"Exposure pathways for depleted uranium can be through the skin, by inhalation, and ingestion," writes Lauren Moret, another DU researcher. "Nano-particles have high mobility and can easily enter the body. Inhalation of nano-particles of depleted uranium is the most hazardous exposure, because the particles pass through the lung-blood barrier directly into the blood.

[invest07]

The 9/11 "truthers" believe this because they want to. It fits in with their world view which includes an intense hatred of GWB.
The blindest are not those who can't see but those who chose not to see.

[Dave]

Where Dave, did i say It was responsible for gulf war syndrome?
I never said, or claimed that, your mistaken. Or perhaps We are back to the ole inferrance game?
what i said is...... the government is Full of it when they say D.U claims are considered Mis-information.... I have presented evidence that shows, that some people are getting sick. and presenting problems, from ingesting, or inhaling the alpha particles that are presented, when a D.U. round penetrates, or contacts a surface...


I never ONCE even started to imply that Gulfwar syndrome was caused By D.U. I clearly stated there were OTHER ilness's presenting as well...... It was YOU who was lumping ALL sickness in region to D.U. and claiming it wasnt so. Let the record stand I never claimed it did. I claimed D.U. is a harful toxic heavy metal and that it is presenting problems and contaminating water animals and people....


OK, so you just posted articles that claimed it was responsible for Gulf War Syndrome. Way to go hiding behind someone elses opinion without taking responsibility for what you post. And like I've said many times, there are tons of carcinogens, as well as radiation lingering from Iraq's failed nuclear programs, in Iraq today. Until you can conclusively say that the problems faced by soldiers are something seperate from these issues, I consider it irresponsible to spread this conspiracy theorist propaganda.

[Rokerijdude11]

I wrote plenty of of the posts myself ......there were articles to support my viewpoint,Yes I did use an article that tried to tie it to gulf war syndrome But I clearly stated that i wasnt pushing that agaenda
.I have always been discussing URANIUM.... not all illness, Uranium Illness..... it is you who has tried in vain to take it somewhere, i had never intended it to go?


I stand behind what, I WROTE IN MY POSTS..... i used some articles to substantiate my opinions...... your just determined to assert your will upon me, and the readers you need to chill out?

[Rokerijdude11]

OK, so you just posted articles that claimed it was responsible for Gulf War Syndrome. Way to go hiding behind someone elses opinion without taking responsibility for what you post.
thats just plain incorrect you didnt read what i wrote obviously by your response??? whatever dude?
And like I've said many times, there are tons of carcinogens, as well as radiation lingering from Iraq's failed nuclear programs, in Iraq today.

And NOT ONE time in this thread, have i disputed that there are chemicals, and carcinogens ALSO present In Iraq, and Afghanistan?,

I was talking about the fact that the Feds have taken the stance, that D.U. contamination, and complications, are simply Mis-Information..

I totally disagree with that ,and have been discussing just that?


You continue to try and spin off on a tangent elsewhere, not me? Gulf war syndrome, and all illness, has been your story not mine...


D.U. remember? is it safe, or is it dangerous? thats what we have been trying to discuss....???




Until you can conclusively say that the problems faced by soldiers are something seperate from these issues, I consider it irresponsible to spread this conspiracy theorist propaganda.


Hmmm but thats Ok to do when it comes to marijuana prohibition? Interesting tactics?


I wasnt discussing Issues of Gulf war syndrome, Nor was i discussing chemicals, or carcinogens...I am discussing Depleted Uranium, in its alpha particle form, and the harm it has been causing? as well as the fact that wherever DU has been heavily used the ground,water, and animals are being affected.....

as well soldiers are presenting DU in Urine and semen and experiencing Birth defects directly related to this ...I havent spread any conspiracy theorist propoganda?...YOU HAVE !!!I have presented proof, that DU if inhaled, is harmful and even lethal...

I have issued proof, that soldiers with D.U in theyre semen have been producing at times deformed, or worse children, as well the people who live in country also present issues.... your quite transparent in your motives Dave ...frankly you not so good at it either

[n0spam4me]

DU should be one of those items that are BANNED,
but as we all know, in warfare, its down to whatever works at the time,
whatever it takes, banned weapon or no, if the current regime succeeds in iginting WWIII, Humanity faces the brink of extinction.

[Dajfe0w67]

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[Mirror Lake 444]

theres been deaths. But just like Agent Orange, the government refuses to investigate and conduct research.

So, no officially reported deaths.

Correction: The government must have finally investigated it as they are paying veterans that were exposed to it. My father is one of them.

[Mirror Lake 444]

You are right, the effects of DU have been well documented, and there is no proof of it causing one single death. Take a look at the link I posted, all the evidence is right there.

I think this is plausible but on the other hand didn't the government have the position the Gulf War Syndrome was not legitimate, and have since changed their position?

The government has some precedence for putting out false information does it not? And then there's a site put out by the government that is supposed to exonerate the government? ;)

BTW I can't get to the site link. Doesn't work.

[groupthink]

i got something to debunk

how did cave dwelleres have NORAD stand down?

[groupthink]

Spam, if I showed you a video of the plane hitting the Pentagon -- would you abandon your juvenile conspiracy theory?

YES... please provide the video